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Author Topic:   Geological question. (Sea floor sediment accumulation)
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 38 (400266)
05-11-2007 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by CanadianBiologyGeek
05-05-2007 3:36 AM


About That Refute
CBG writes:

I'm now determined to refute it

So after reading all this, what is your refute going to look like in a nutshell, so to speak? My question is why aren't the river valleys deeper as is the Grand Canyon? Logically it seems the catastropic Global flood suddenly cut the Grand Canyon somewhat like the Mt St Helens canyon and there wasn't a similar sudden break through condition to cut the other rivers so they didn't get cut deep.

Secularists are trying to say the Grand Canyon is a couple of billion or so years old and yet the Mississippi is a mere 10000 years old. What gives here?? It appears they are trying to have it both ways so as to cover for both the deep GC and the relatively shallow Mississipi Valley as well as the relatively nonpronounced and small Mississippi Delta. I see there's quite a dispute at the GC Park Service about allowing the sales of an AIG book so as for both arguments to be available to the public.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 38 (400267)
05-11-2007 8:46 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Buzsaw
05-11-2007 8:30 PM


Re: About That Refute
Secularists are trying to say the Grand Canyon is a couple of billion or so years old and yet the Mississippi is a mere 10000 years old. What gives here??

What gives what? Who says rivers all have to be the same age?


This message is a reply to:
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sidelined
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 38 (400268)
05-11-2007 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Buzsaw
05-11-2007 8:30 PM


Re: About That Refute
Buzsaw

Logically it seems the catastropic Global flood suddenly cut the Grand Canyon somewhat like the Mt St Helens canyon and there wasn't a similar sudden break through condition to cut the other rivers so they didn't get cut deep.

So why does soil like the rock of the Grand Canyon dig so deep while a river such as ,say, the Ganges does not since the same flood hit each.
How about the Nile or the Mississippi as well whose soil is soft in comparison and easier to erode?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Buzsaw, posted 05-11-2007 8:30 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30936
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 19 of 38 (400269)
05-11-2007 8:52 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Buzsaw
05-11-2007 8:30 PM


Re: About That Refute
Logically it seems the catastropic Global flood suddenly cut the Grand Canyon somewhat like the Mt St Helens canyon and there wasn't a similar sudden break through condition to cut the other rivers so they didn't get cut deep.

Well no, logically that is simply bullshit. Only someone totally ignorant of the facts would think such a thing. There is NO evidence there ever was a "catastropic Global flood" and there is absolute evidence that the Grand Canyon formed over time long periods of time.

See Message 1 for absolute refutation of the lie that the Grand Canyon formed quickly.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16094
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 9.0


Message 20 of 38 (400276)
05-11-2007 9:14 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Buzsaw
05-11-2007 8:30 PM


Geology: A "Secularist" Writes
Secularists are trying to say the Grand Canyon is a couple of billion or so years old and yet the Mississippi is a mere 10000 years old. What gives here?? It appears they are trying to have it both ways so as to cover for both the deep GC and the relatively shallow Mississipi Valley as well as the relatively nonpronounced and small Mississippi Delta.

The average "secularist" will also tell you that it's the COLORADO river which flows through the bleedin' Grand Canyon, not the freakin' MISSISSIPPI river. It's this peculiar secularist ritual we have called "getting the frickin' facts right".

Sheesh, you guys.

This particular "secularist" would also like to remind you that there is a difference between the age of the rocks at the Grand Canyon site and the age of the canyon.

Some of the rocks are indeed 2 billion years old, but the canyon started being carved mere millions of years ago.

In the same way, a Renaissance scultor can carve a Jurrasic rock: the rock is millions of years old; the sculpture is centuries old; there is no contradiction here, as you'd have figured out if you'd spent ten seconds thought on the subject. But I guess thinking is a "secularist" thing.

I see there's quite a dispute at the GC Park Service about allowing the sales of an AIG book so as for both arguments to be available to the public.

Creationist rubbish about the Grand Canyon is already available to the public. If there is any dispute, it is over whether the Park Service should promulgate this trash.

If it's all up to the standard you've set here, then the answer is "no".

Can you give me any links referring to this dispute?

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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AdminCoragyps
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 38 (400277)
05-11-2007 9:17 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by bdfoster
05-11-2007 6:38 PM


Re: California's Coast Range
Hello, bdfoster, and welcome to EvC! We hope you enjoy it here - we're always needing clarification on matters geological.
This message is a reply to:
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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5381
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 8.4


Message 22 of 38 (400278)
05-11-2007 9:22 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Buzsaw
05-11-2007 8:30 PM


Re: About That Refute
Secularists are trying to say the Grand Canyon is a couple of billion or so years old and yet the Mississippi is a mere 10000 years old.

Which "scientists" try to say that? My limited geology suggests that the Grand Canyon is some tens of millions of years old, though the rock down deep in the gorge is a couple of billion. And the Mississippi is at least fifty million years old, if the sediments down below it in its delta are any indication.

Where are you getting your info?


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16094
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 9.0


Message 23 of 38 (400283)
05-11-2007 9:41 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Coragyps
05-11-2007 9:22 PM


Age Of "The" Mississippi.
There's a site here which says: "the Upper Mississippi River as we know it has been in existence for 10,000 years".

Do you know the riddle of the philosopher's axe?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Coragyps, posted 05-11-2007 9:22 PM Coragyps has responded

Replies to this message:
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Vacate
Member (Idle past 2712 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 10-01-2006


Message 24 of 38 (400284)
05-11-2007 9:44 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Dr Adequate
05-11-2007 9:14 PM


Re: Geology: A "Secularist" Writes
I read about the Grand Canyon dispute here - Richard Dawkings.net

This is the best part - "this is equivalent of Yellowstone National Park selling a book entitled Geysers of Old Faithful: Nostrils of Satan"
I hope to see the Noodley Appendage Theory published shortly. In all fairness.

Edited by Vacate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-11-2007 9:14 PM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5381
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 8.4


Message 25 of 38 (400286)
05-11-2007 9:50 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Dr Adequate
05-11-2007 9:41 PM


Re: Age Of "The" Mississippi.
"the Upper Mississippi River as we know it has been in existence for 10,000 years".

Aha! Can you say "icecap," class? "Wisconsonian glaciation?"

Tell me the riddle!

Edited by Coragyps, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16094
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 9.0


Message 26 of 38 (400290)
05-11-2007 10:14 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Coragyps
05-11-2007 9:50 PM


The Philosopher's Axe
The philosopher's axe has been passed down in his family from the days of his grandfather. Every now and then, it's been necessary to replace the handle; every now and then, it's been necessary to replace the blade. Is it still his grandfather's axe?

See also the "Ship of Theseus":

"The ship wherein Theseus and the youth of Athens returned [from Crete] had thirty oars, and was preserved by the Athenians down even to the time of Demetrius Phalereus, for they took away the old planks as they decayed, putting in new and stronger timber in their place, insomuch that this ship became a standing example among the philosophers, for the logical question of things that grow; one side holding that the ship remained the same, and the other contending that it was not the same." --- Plutarch.

My point is that you could argue that a river is not the Mississippi unless it flows where the Mississippi does now, or you could say that it's always the same river, it just keeps changing its course.


This message is a reply to:
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iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4026 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 27 of 38 (400292)
05-11-2007 10:16 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Buzsaw
05-11-2007 8:30 PM


Geological Nonsense
Buz writes:

My question is why aren't the river valleys deeper as is the Grand Canyon?

Logically it seems the catastrophic Global flood suddenly cut the Grand Canyon somewhat like the Mt St Helens canyon and there wasn't a similar sudden break through condition to cut the other rivers so they didn't get cut deep.

This is not logical! A river is only as deep as its outlet (ie Sea Level). One darn good reason the Mississippi is not as deep as the Grand, is because the total elevation change of the Mississippi is something like 1400 ft.

What is the heck is a "break through condition"?

Buz writes:

Secularists are trying to say the Grand Canyon is a couple of billion or so years old and yet the Mississippi is a mere 10000 years old. What gives here??

Those darn Secularist with their data, logic and reasoning!

Like any geological structure rivers have different ages. Rivers are temporary from a Geological perspective. BTW the Mississippi is older than 10k years, however note the character of the river changes drastically with time.

Buz writes:


It appears they are trying to have it both ways so as to cover for both the deep GC and the relatively shallow Mississipi Valley as well as the relatively nonpronounced and small Mississippi Delta.

Rivers are only as deep as they need be and no deeper.

Mississippi river sediments are *not* small! Nor shallow!

The Mississippi river sediments are measured in miles or kilometers.

Which by the way is shot to the head for a young earth argument. It takes long periods of time to compress, dewater, lithify, and sink huge amounts of sediments.

You are visiting too many evil fraudulent Creationist websites.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Buzsaw, posted 05-11-2007 8:30 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16094
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 9.0


Message 28 of 38 (400293)
05-11-2007 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Vacate
05-11-2007 9:44 PM


Thanks For The Links
Wow, falsifying history is getting popular, isn't it?

"This past October Park Service employees contacted PEER to warn us that the video display at the Lincoln Memorial would be removed and revised under pressure from conservative and religious groups ...

These groups asked to cut out footage of gay rights, pro-choice and anti-Vietnam War demonstrations ... Under pressure from these groups and a conservative Kansas congressman, Todd Tiahrt who sits on the Appropriations Committee, the Park Service promised to develop a “more balanced” version of the video. Park Service spokespeople indicated that they were considering inserting footage from the Christian group Promise Keepers rally and pro-Gulf War demonstrators even though these events did not take place at the Memorial."

The mind boggles.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Vacate, posted 05-11-2007 9:44 PM Vacate has not yet responded

  
Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3879
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 29 of 38 (400295)
05-11-2007 11:23 PM


People - Manners please
Let's trim out the crankiness.

Also, how about staying a little more topic focused, as presented in message 1. The Grand Canyon sure seems to be off-topic, and some of the messages are getting way off-topic.

Adminnemooseus

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Change ID.


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Admin writes:

It really helps moderators figure out if a topic is disintegrating because of general misbehavior versus someone in particular if the originally non-misbehaving members kept it that way. When everyone is prickly and argumentative and off-topic and personal then it's just too difficult to tell. We have neither infinite time to untie the Gordian knot, nor the wisdom of Solomon.

There used to be a comedian who presented his ideas for a better world, and one of them was to arm everyone on the highway with little rubber dart guns. Every time you see a driver doing something stupid, you fire a little dart at his car. When a state trooper sees someone driving down the highway with a bunch of darts all over his car he pulls him over for being an idiot.

Please make it easy to tell you apart from the idiots. Source


    
edge
Member
Posts: 4521
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002
Member Rating: 7.7


Message 30 of 38 (400310)
05-12-2007 3:33 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by kuresu
05-05-2007 3:19 PM


Re: Why do you ask?
Correct. Huge amounts of ancient sea floor sediment has been accreted to the continents. THat is why the continents are essentially growing in area with geological time.
This message is a reply to:
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