Jerry Falwell dead.

No, I'm not trying to justify a goddammned thing! I'm giving a dead man the respect and honor he deserves.

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W.W.E.D.?

While you did not address me directly, since I began this thread with the words, "The Immoral Minority has lost its biggest mouthpiece. The world is a better place without him," I shall assume that your aspersions included me as well. I never used the bully pulpit to pervert the loving words of Christ into vile lies about millions of people who never did a thing against me. I never twisted a personal philosophy of life espoused by a great philosopher into a political platform. I never supported the systematic deprivation of basic human rights to anyone, much less two nations of blacks, simply because of the color of their skin. I think those facts alone are sufficient for me to claim the moral high ground over Falwell. I never preached hate. I never exhorted others to hate, for any reason. For that matter, I don't hate Falwell, although I hate most of what he did. Life is much too short to waste it hating. Even assuming that I did hate him for what he did, there's no way to draw a parallel between hating one man for what he did, and the harm he did to millions, and hating millions because of the color of their skin, or the god they worship, or who they choose to have sexual relations with. But I don't expect you to understand that, since you and Falwell both claim to pray to the same myth. If there is a loving god, and if that being doesn't condemn Falwell to some period of suffering for the damage he did to people who never did a thing to hurt him, then I say in all confidence and sincerity, that I am a better judge than that god is.

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

Yes, the Westboro Baptist Church will be there.

If Phelps dies of some natural disaster while he's there, I will renounce Atheism and believe that there is a true and just God.

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Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

Right on good bud. I'm very thankful that you're back, btw and glad to be back with you contending for truth.Now I know how the hatemonger Christophobic types here will be rejoicing when I pass on if I go before them. Falwell was two years older than I, a dear brother in Christ whom I respected but with whom I had quite a few theological differences. I say these hatemongers will rejoice over my passing because I pretty much agree with most of what they hate Falwell for, being of the religious right.I, like Falwell, have some gay friends and treat them well but am fully aware that the Bible says their lifestyle is a sinful lifestyle. Over the years via my business I have had a number of gay friends who I had dealings with which helped them and me as well. One significant incident comes to mind. I wrote a letter to the editor a number of years ago in which I reminded all who claim they believed the Bible that in so doing they need to understand that the Bible denounced both adultery and homosexuality. Well there were a pair of gays who had done quite extensive business with me over the years and we had a friendly business relationship. After I submitted the letter which was published, I had a visit from one of the pair. I was all alone, my wife being out for the evening. He was acting quite strangely and making some remarks which gave me the impression that he may have been there to take my life. I reminded him that my remarks were Biblical and that they were across the board addressing both heterosexuals and homosexuals. This seemed to put him at ease and before he left he said he loved me. I believe he was sincere and that he didn't mean it in a sexual manner. Our business relationship never suffered from it and they moved out of state later on.Falwell never hurt a gay person nor have I. He convinced some gays that their lifestyle was indeed not Biblical as was his duty as a preacher of the Bible and they became his friends and brothers in Christ as well. Preaching what the Bible teaches regarding their lifestyle is not hate. That is his duty as a Biblical pastor.The hateful things said by the hatemongers here are baseless. Falwell was no threat to anyone. He was a citizen under the Constitution and the laws of the land which he operated under all the way promoting his harmless agendas under the auspices of those laws and the Constitution. The nation is better, not worse for the work of this good man.I challenge all these hateful people to document one way in which the nation is worse off because of the work of this man.How many of the scores of thousands of folks he ministered to both via the church and university think they are worse off because of his work? Maybe a few dozen? How many of these would have ended up as suicide victims, drunkards, dope addicts, dead et al, et al had they not been affected by the Biblical principles this man instilled into them? Only God knows.How many folks in poor nations overseas who were helped benevolently by this man's work think they are worse off from having received food, clothes, education, et al? How many single mothers who kept their children, helped financially, spiritually, et al along by the Falwell ministries think they were worse off by this man's work? Likely none or few.Yah, like us all, he had some faults, but I'm not ashamed to be likened unto him in life or in death no matter how gleeful these haters express themselves when I pass on.It's logical to assume that the hateful folks here who hate Falwell loving his death also hate the scores of thousands of good law abiding, tax paying American citizens who espouse and support what he espoused while he lived and will rejoice at their death also.
It all goes to show that what they really hate is the Biblical principles he preached and the Biblical principles all Biblically fundamental people espouse. This hateful generation is prophesied several places in the Biblical prophecies. These same folks would have likely danced when Jesus was dying on the cross along with the hypocritical self righteous Pharasees, for it was Jesus and his gospel which Falwell preached as well as the principles Jesus and his apostles taught.Proverbs 29:10: "The bloodthirsty hate him that is perfect (good). As for the upright, they seek his life." ASV
Psalms 34:21b, 22 "And they that hate the righteous shall be condemned. Jehovah redeemeth the soul of his servants." ASV
Psalms 37:12, 13 "The wicked plotteth agianst the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth. The Lord will laugh at him; For he seeth that his day is coming."
Psalms 37:32 "The wicked watch the righteous And seeketh to slay him." ASV (i.e. rejoices at his death)
Psalms 116:15 "Precious in the sight of Jehovah is the death of his saints."As you say, NJ, the real hate is by folks hateful enough to dance in the streets over another person's death.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW

For the record Falwell's University and church has many black brothers and sisters in them whom he respected and loved as brothers and sisters in Christ. He has also had blacks in his pulpit, including Alan Keys.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW

Falwell set this country back years in terms of acceptance and equality for women homosexuals, and non-Christians.

quote:

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"[Vice President Gore] recently praised the lesbian actress who plays 'Ellen' on ABC Television...I believe he may even put children, young people, and adults in danger by his public endorsement of deviant homosexual behavior...Our elected leaders are attempting to glorify and legitimize perversion." People for the American Way, "Hostile Climate", 1998, p.9.

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quote:

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"Someone must not be afriad to say, 'moral perversion is wrong.' If we do not act now, homosexuals will 'own' America!...If you and I do not speak up now, this homosexual steamroller will leterally crush all decent men, women, and children who get in its way...and our nation will pay a terrible price!" - People for the American Way, "Hostile Climate," 1997, p.15.

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And, perhaps worst:

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"I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped [9/11] happen.'"

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- Jerry Falwell, September 13, 2001, on The 700 Club

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That's right, September 11th was the fault of the gays! And the Feminists, and the ACLU, and anyone else who believes in religious freedom instead of Christian Theocracy.Using the Bible to defend bigotry against homosexuals is identical to hiding behind Mein Kampf. "I'm not saying it, look, it's written here in this book!!!" I don't care if Falwell's homophobia stemmed from his religious views or anything else: telling someone their natural, sexual orientation is wrong and evil is, in fact, wrong and evil. The source of the sentiment is irrelevant.Telling someone that a basic part of themselves is evil messes them up in the head, and promotes violence agaisnt that group by likeminded individuals. The sexual suppression that goes on in various "gay camps" where homosexuals are "converted" to being straight is severely damaging psychologically. Parents who force their children to attend such camps occasionally drive their children to cut themselves off from the family entirely, or even commit suicide.This is identical to telling a black person that they are evil becasue of their skin. We've seen how that can be harmful, I believe.And Buzz, had I been alive, I would have danced in the streets when Hitler died. I would have danced in the streets when Mussolini's corpse was dragged around. Despite my opposition to the Iraq war, I was quite pleased when Saddam and his sons were killed.I'm happy any time a true monster is removed from this Earth so that I don't have to breathe the same air as someone so wholly despicable. Falwell wasn't quite on the level of Hitler, but he was climbing the same disgusting ladder.Quote your old book at us all you want, Buzz. Falwells message was disgusting, whether you believe it's supported by the Bible or not. We all know the Bible is filled with abhorrent acts of genocide, rape, and child murder on the orders of God anyway. It's unsurprising a literal reading of the book would support such garbage.

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Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

Looking at that cite/site, looking at the Fred Phelps Wikipedia page, and looking at various links thereof, my impression is that Fred Phelps is flat out insane. That in not a rational mind in action.Moose

A person may be, to hate them (especially when they're too dead to cause further harm) only reciprocates what made them so evil in our eyes. Shame on you guys; full-fledged adults shouldn't need the hot-headed (and recently-dubbed 'pro-gunner')college freshmen to remind them not to say mean things.Sure, there were some good one liners on the first page, but even with Falwell, an eye for an eye makes the world blind.

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I'm bent, bruised, broken, and a little lost. But you know what? I'm not so afraid as you are, who has never ventured away from the trail.

This is all kind of fun to watch but a little mystifying for a Briton. The only way I can understand it is to imagine the day that Maggie Thatcher dies . Am I on the right track?

I didn't hate Falwell - however I am glad that he is dead. I would have been equally glad had he stopped being a twat of his own accord. If he had lived to 80 he would have made a whole load of people miserable or angry. To me, a reduction in the amount of hate, anger and misery is a good thing.Still - I'm saddened that it simply means more airtime for other hatemongers but I'm more saddened that this particular hatemonger lived a comfortable rich life in service of the great god Money whilst causing hurt and pain to those around him.De mortuis nil nisi verum, de vivis nil nisi bonum.

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Hey, that was awesome.

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See, this is one of the things that I do not like about religion.This whole "let God be the judge" stuff seems very much like an excuse to not have to speak truth to power when it would be politically inconvenient.It is also hypocritical.You people (as a group) have no problem at all taking God's judging job away from him if it means, say, outlawing or limiting abortion rights, or curtailing free speech rights, or not allowing marriage to same sex couples, etc.It seems that you don't want to criticize Falwell for the pig that he was simply becasue he was "one of the team".

Secularists have advocated non-equality in school science for Christians. (Abe: Where they were able to practice Christianity openly in school and some public arenas et al for centuries, they have lost those freedoms.) The whole nation, including non-Christians are blessed when Biblical principles which the founding fathers espoused are promoted in the nation. Until the recent homosexual revolution and until the recent women's lib movement, the most blessed nation on earth faired quite well under the things Falwell espoused before he died. He did not die a racist, btw, nor did he advocate anything detrimental to the nation's women. He was for life of helpless babies who had no voice to defend themselves. Unlike many secularists he was willing to change when change needed to happen.Segregation and slavery was a world phenomenon for all of world history. All slavery and segregation that's left in the world is happening in non-Chrisian cultures and nations.----------- It's Biblicalists who are loosing religious freedoms. Btw, you need to cite how the nation is worse off by the Biblical stuff Falwell preaches regarding women and gays. It appears that things are getting worse in the nation with more devastating catastrophes et al. There are numerous Biblical texts that verify Falwell's contention that devious lifestyles and pagan practices bring on judgement by God and are not condusive to national blessing. The Bible is full of texts on this.Sodom and Gomorrah are one example of God's judgement on sodomy. Btw, it is Biblical that the leadership role of the man is the natural and good thing for cultures, so don't blame the preacher. Blame God and the Bible if you have a problem with that. Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW

Buz, How? I'm envisioning christians being barred from science courses because of their faith, if not, what?Mark

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

WE don't have to judge him, it was obvious.