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Author Topic:   Jerry Falwell dead.
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 46 of 224 (400696)
05-16-2007 9:54 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by nator
05-16-2007 7:17 AM


Re: A caveat
Me thinks you and Minnemooseous are confusing judging people here and now, and judging people in the after life.
Of course we have to judge people in the here and now, as well as issues. But in our judgments, if we believe in God and what the bible says, we have to accept that we will be judged in the same manor.
We can judge people, or things without condemnation. If I think abortion is wrong, and fight for it, I am not judging people who get abortions. I do not think people are automatically going to hell, or that they are bad for getting an abortion, or for thinking abortion is ok.
As far as who is going to hell or not, that is left up to God.
When it comes to Jerry Falwell, nobody knows for certain just where he will wind up, because maybe in Jerry's heart, he thought he was always doing the right thing. Maybe others are to be held partly responsible for how Jerry Falwell thought things through.
*I am not sticking up for Falwell*
I am saying I do not know where he will wind up in the after life.
When he was here, I did not agree with him.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by nator, posted 05-16-2007 7:17 AM nator has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 47 of 224 (400698)
05-16-2007 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by Buzsaw
05-16-2007 9:09 AM


Re: A caveat
I'm not going to call you a liar, because it's quite possible that you believe what you say. Nonetheless, you are wrong.
Secularists have advocated non-equality in school science for Christians. (Abe: Where they were able to practice Christianity openly in school and some public arenas et al for centuries, they have lost those freedoms.)
Individuals do have the right to practice Christianity openly wherever they choose to do so. In fact, there is federal legislation specifically saying that if a school allows student groups to use school facilities for meetings, the school cannot deny access to any group because it is a religious group. What has changed is that the government cannot practice any form of religion.
Btw, it is Biblical that the leadership role of the man is the natural and good thing for cultures, so don't blame the preacher. Blame God and the Bible if you have a problem with that.
If I have a problem with that, and I in fact do, I am fully justified in blaming both the bible and anyone who advocates that position as well. It's no defense to being racist, sexist or any other "ist" to simply say, "the bible tells me so." Those who choose to follow bigoted policies are just as much bigots themselves, regardless of the source of the policy.
Edited by subbie, : Tyop

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Buzsaw, posted 05-16-2007 9:09 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 48 of 224 (400702)
05-16-2007 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by berberry
05-15-2007 11:18 PM


Re: A caveat
hateberry writes:
No, I'm not trying to justify a goddammned thing! I'm giving a dead man the respect and honor he deserves.
But God damns the things you justify and things that Falwell alleges as damnable by God so you are indeed justifying the goddammed thing.
Speaking of God, here's another morsel of wisdom from his book written by wise King Solomon:
Proverbs 29:27 "An unjust man is an abomination by the righteous; And he that is upright in the way is an abomination to the wicked."
HATERS OF GOOD PEOPLE ATTEST TO THE WISDOM, ACCURACY AND PROPHECY OF THE BIBLE AS THE CITED VERSES DOCUMENT. THE HATE WE READ HERE IS EXACTLY HOW THE GOOD BOOK SAYS IT WILL BE AND WHAT GOOD PEOPLE SHOULD EXPECT JUST AS IT WAS WITH HATRED TOWARD JESUS AND HIS APOSTLES. EAT YOUR HEARTS OUT YE HATERS OF THE GOOD AND THE GODLY. IN THE JUDGEMENT JEHOVAH GOD HAS HIS JUST REWARD FOR ALL!

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by berberry, posted 05-15-2007 11:18 PM berberry has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by berberry, posted 05-16-2007 10:49 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 51 by subbie, posted 05-16-2007 10:53 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 52 by Dan Carroll, posted 05-16-2007 10:54 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 53 by jar, posted 05-16-2007 11:13 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 54 by ringo, posted 05-16-2007 11:20 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 59 by LinearAq, posted 05-16-2007 1:30 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 49 of 224 (400703)
05-16-2007 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Buzsaw
05-16-2007 1:51 AM


Re: A caveat
the hatemonger Christophobic types
Yes, when one looks upon the life and mind of Jerry Falwell, one can really only reach one inescapable conclusion: Christians have it so rough.
Wow, I can't even type that without throwing up in my mouth a little.

"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut."
-Stephen Colbert

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Buzsaw, posted 05-16-2007 1:51 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Buzsaw, posted 05-16-2007 3:21 PM Dan Carroll has replied

  
berberry
Inactive Member


Message 50 of 224 (400704)
05-16-2007 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Buzsaw
05-16-2007 10:42 AM


Re: A caveat
Buzsaw writes me:
quote:
But God damns the things you justify and things that Falwell alleges as damnable by God so you are indeed justifying the goddammed thing.
Unless you're wrong about this god dude you keep talking about.
I'm beyond caring what people who believe in fairy stories think of my posts.

W.W.E.D.?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Buzsaw, posted 05-16-2007 10:42 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 51 of 224 (400705)
05-16-2007 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Buzsaw
05-16-2007 10:42 AM


Re: A caveat
How could any "righteous" person say these things:
“AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals.”
“If you're not a born-again Christian, you're a failure as a human being.”
“Homosexuality is Satan's diabolical attack upon the family that will not only have a corrupting influence upon our next generation, but it will also bring down the wrath of God upon America.”
“I do not believe we can blame genetics for adultery, homosexuality, dishonesty and other character flaws.”
“[homosexuals are] brute beasts...part of a vile and satanic system [that] will be utterly annihilated, and there will be a celebration in heaven.”
Jerry Falwell quotes

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Buzsaw, posted 05-16-2007 10:42 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 52 of 224 (400708)
05-16-2007 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Buzsaw
05-16-2007 10:42 AM


Re: A caveat
Speaking of God, here's another morsel of wisdom from his book written by wise King Solomon:
Proverbs 29:27 "An unjust man is an abomination by the righteous; And he that is upright in the way is an abomination to the wicked."
Is that before or after the part of the Bible where God slams airplanes into buildings because he doesn't like the ACLU?

"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut."
-Stephen Colbert

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Buzsaw, posted 05-16-2007 10:42 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 53 of 224 (400710)
05-16-2007 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Buzsaw
05-16-2007 10:42 AM


The Unjust Man
Yes Buz, read Proverbs 29:27. The Unjust Man is the Biblical Christian and Jerry Falwell and Biblical Christians are an abomination.
I do not hate Falwell and the others who Blaspheme the Holy Spirit.
I pity them.
I am glad though that Jerry Falwell personally can do no more harm to Mankind, the US or Christianity but I also know Satan will find another voice. Satan's Army is filled with Biblical Christians.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Buzsaw, posted 05-16-2007 10:42 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 54 of 224 (400714)
05-16-2007 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Buzsaw
05-16-2007 10:42 AM


Re: A caveat
Buzsaw writes:
HATERS OF GOOD PEOPLE ATTEST TO THE WISDOM, ACCURACY AND PROPHECY OF THE BIBLE AS THE CITED VERSES DOCUMENT.
What does "HATERS OF GOOD PEOPLE" have to do with haters of Falwell?
EAT YOUR HEARTS OUT YE HATERS OF THE GOOD AND THE GODLY.
What does "THE GOOD AND THE GODLY" have to do with Falwell?
hateberry....
Shame on you.

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
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Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3912 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 55 of 224 (400717)
05-16-2007 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Zhimbo
05-15-2007 9:49 PM


No Joy
Personally, the people who have a problem are those who AREN'T happy he's dead.
He was a poisonous blight on our society. I wish he had died sooner, for the sake of us all.
Indeed, he's to blame, perhaps more than anyone, for putting this country on the road to ruin.
I feel for the good people who miss him. I feel confused, that is. I don't know how a good person could miss him.
I've said such things before, and I'm not going to change it nowthat he's dead.
Other than to put it in the past tense.
I don't know that Falwell's death is anything to be happy about. I have to say that my heart did jump a little when I found out but I realized that the real failure is that a man lived for his entire life in ignorance and bigotry and died without ever displaying an ounce of rational repentence or humanity. I AM glad that he can no longer influence people but any comfort in that thought is only lost when you realize how many people he probably left behind to take his place, maybe not on the national level but at the very least to "stir the pot" amongst the culture of hate and bigotry he worked so hard to build. What good is it then for a man to die and leave such a legacy? There is no joy in such a death. It would have been just as good had he been marooned on an island somewhere and never heard of again. At the very least in that scenario he would not be a marty, an exclamation point upon a lifetime spreading disease to the ignorant.
People like Falwell make it all to painfully obvious that the battle front for our humanity is not being won in classrooms, courtrooms, the halls of science and academia. These are all just manifestations of the much more bitter and important struggle to define our culture amongst so many discordant ideas and values. What good does it do to secure all of the legal or contractual provisions that will protect our freedoms and values if all the people in our nation CHOOSE to live in ignorance and CHOOSE to throw their freedoms to the wind for the promises of these false prophets of religion.

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
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Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3598 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 56 of 224 (400719)
05-16-2007 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Buzsaw
05-16-2007 1:51 AM


a funeral is a funeral
Rejoicing at a human death is the ultimate failure to empathize.
I agree with you, Buz, that we're seeing inappropriate, boorish behaviour on this board. It is wholly unworthy of the people I see signing their names to it. I never thought I'd say this of the friends I find myself saying it of, but it's true: I am ashamed of them.
The kindest thing I can think about these statements, and I ask you to do the same, is that a lot of people aren't. What you read is not hate (I hope) but momentary thoughtlessness.
Falwell's passing is a tragedy.
Unlike you, Buz, I see it as a compounded tragedy. This event not only closes a human life, but it ends all opportunity for change in a life that, for all its influence, could have been spent nurturing better ideas.
No cause for celebrations. A sad situation, by any measure.
Dona nobis pacem.

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Buzsaw, posted 05-16-2007 1:51 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Omnivorous, posted 05-16-2007 12:39 PM Archer Opteryx has replied
 Message 58 by Dan Carroll, posted 05-16-2007 12:41 PM Archer Opteryx has not replied
 Message 80 by nator, posted 05-16-2007 6:00 PM Archer Opteryx has not replied
 Message 95 by Zhimbo, posted 05-16-2007 8:54 PM Archer Opteryx has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 57 of 224 (400723)
05-16-2007 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Archer Opteryx
05-16-2007 12:02 PM


Re: a funeral is a funeral
Archer writes:
Falwell's passing is a tragedy.
Everything dies. There is no tragedy in mere death.
Jerry Falwell was a hateful little man, little in heart and mind, hateful from the day he first came to public notice until the day he left it.
Many thousands of people's lives were blighted--and many thousands of deaths hastened--by his horrific ideas and the political forces he unleashed.
Some of us leave the world a better place for our having been here; some of us leave the world a better place only by our leaving it.
Falwell falls in the latter category. No one needs to apologize for recognizing that fact or for being glad that a loud voice for ignorance and hate has been silenced.
He is beyond all hurt our words can do; in life, as Buz suggests, he would welcome our contempt, as his allies in self-righteous spite must do now. To demonstrate glee at his funeral, to pull his family aside to point out what he was--those would be boorish: to acknowledge among friends in a place where such things are discussed that the world brightened a bit at his passing is not.
He was my enemy and not an honorable one. I am unabashedly gladdened by his passing.

Real things always push back.
-William James
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Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Archer Opteryx, posted 05-16-2007 12:02 PM Archer Opteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
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Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 58 of 224 (400725)
05-16-2007 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Archer Opteryx
05-16-2007 12:02 PM


Re: a funeral is a funeral
I agree with you, Buz, that we're seeing inappropriate, boorish behaviour on this board. It is wholly unworthy of the people I see signing their names to it. I never thought I'd say this of the friends I find myself saying it of, but it's true: I am ashamed of them.
That's unfortunate. But look on the bright side... some day we'll all die, and become magically immune to criticism. Then all that shame will just be washed clean.

"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut."
-Stephen Colbert

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Archer Opteryx, posted 05-16-2007 12:02 PM Archer Opteryx has not replied

  
LinearAq
Member (Idle past 4676 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 59 of 224 (400731)
05-16-2007 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Buzsaw
05-16-2007 10:42 AM


Re: A caveat
Buzsaw writes:
Proverbs 29:27 "An unjust man is an abomination by the righteous; And he that is upright in the way is an abomination to the wicked."
????
Could you explain how this says anything other than "Some people hate my ways, and I hate their ways"?
Solomon was very wise....he could speak obvious crap and make it smell like the rose of genius.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Buzsaw, posted 05-16-2007 10:42 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 60 of 224 (400732)
05-16-2007 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Hyroglyphx
05-15-2007 6:52 PM


Re: A caveat
In fact, something has always struck me as odd about him.
What, besides the fact that any time he opened his mouth, a torrent of ignorant, insane bile poured forth?
However, I've got to say that I'm appalled by how the responders to this post thus far are gleefully cheering his death.
He wreaked incredible havoc on the structure and traditions of this country. He began a tradition of religious divisiveness and ignorance that is in full swing to this day, and many people throughout the world have paid the price with their lives.
The disrespect you're seeing right now is nothing compared to the disrespect to basic human dignity his ministry represented. I guess he loved his kids, but to the extent that they're going to grow up just like him even his parenting did the world a disservice.
What are we supposed to say, Buz? That he was a "good person"? He wasn't. He was a deep moral coward. He described the death of homosexuals as a cause for "celebration in heaven." This was a man who delighted in demagoguery and in putting people in their places; who delighted in seeing sinners come to punishment. Who delighted in fleecing his own parishioners by issuing fraudulent "church bonds."
This was not a good man. Can you be surprised that few are feeling dismayed by the death of a bad man? That many are happy that the most divisive and destructive figure in American religious politics has died with no heir apparent?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Hyroglyphx, posted 05-15-2007 6:52 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
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