DRUGS!

Ok, let's be honest. I've never been addicted to anything in my life so I can't claim to know what it's like to be addicted. Everytime the issue of addiction comes up, I always try understand and try to pity... have at least some sympathy for the addicted. I really do. But the fact remains that in the back of my mind I have this unfair and irrational judgement that people who repeatedly get addicted to drugs (or whatever they get addicted to) are weak minded and somewhat evil.You've repeatedly expressed that you find homosexuality to be disgusting and... well, you know the rest. Well, I find drug addiction and the addicted disgusting. Sure, both of us are essentially irrational, but I'm willing to admit it. What bothers me is you won't admit it and keep hiding behind your bible. Don't worry, I was very aware of that thread. Somehow, I'm not convinced you're willing to put your prejudice aside. Just flip through a few pages in that thread and see your responses. Also, from your very own post I am replying to...

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In my mind, gays cannot get married, because marraige is between a man and a woman, it's not that I do not want them to get married.

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But we do know that some people are more prone to addiction than others, just like homosexuality. One reason why I've never had any desire to even try any drug. Thank you. No, the point is I feel disgusted about drug addiction just as bad (if not worse) as you feel disgusted about homosexuality. The point is also that you keep using the bible as an excuse while I'm willing to admit that my opinion about drug addiction and drug addicts is irrational and therefore I keep my mouth shut rather than campaigning to have all drug addicts, past and future, shot on sight or to tell people how disgusting drug addiction and drug addicts are based on my atheist bible. It's all part of being human. Some day, you'll thank me for this.

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We are BOG. Resistance is voltage over current.

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Disclaimer:

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Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.

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He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

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I used to love quaaludes. You never see those anymore.

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My father was a pharmacist and our family owned and operated a small drug store in a neighboring small town.One night, my father, mother, older brother, older sister, and two employees were robbed at gunpoint.One of the men followed my father around the back of the store with a gun pointed at him while the other one pointed a gun at everyone else who had been ordered to lie face down on the floor.They wanted percodan, percoset, and quaaludes (your mention of them made me recall this event).I hope all of you who have purchased illicit perscription drugs realize that some of them could have been stolen at gunpoint like they were from my family.Edited by nator, : No reason given.

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I hope all of you who have purchased illicit perscription drugs realize that some of them could have been stolen at gunpoint like they were from my family.

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I know that. Your criticism could just as well be made against anyone who drank during the 1920s. Or anyone who gambled in Las Vegas before the 1980s.Your point is taken, and I'm sorry about what happened to your family. But such incidents aren't entirely the fault of drug users. This country's insane war on drugs is every bit as much too blame, if not more.

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W.W.E.D.?

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I know that. Your criticism could just as well be made against anyone who drank during the 1920s. Or anyone who gambled in Las Vegas before the 1980s.

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Except that Percodan, Percoset and Quaaludes do have legitimate medical applications and they are perfectly legal to use under a doctor's supervision.Unlike in the 1920's, producing the drugs and selling the drugs are legal but regulated.

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Your point is taken, and I'm sorry about what happened to your family. But such incidents aren't entirely the fault of drug users.

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Not entirely, no. But when you were a kid and buying and enjoying all of those illicit prescription drugs, did you ever once question how the seller obtained them?Our family pharmacy had cinder blocks thrown through the windows three times in 15 years, and it was robbed during business hours twice. And this was in a sleepy little rural Western PA town with no grocery store and one traffic light.

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This country's insane war on drugs is every bit as much too blame, if not more.

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Really? I kind of think that recreational prescription drugs are a luxury item that nobody actually needs and that letting people buy or simply give away whatever they want is a recipe to transform short-sighted, self-centered adolescent risk-takers with more money than sense into unproductive-at-best and criminal-at-worst people that the rest of us pay for, one way or the other.Mind you, I also think the "War on Drugs" is stupid for many reasons. I would rather drug abusers go to comprehensive, long-term rehab than to prison.However, the American public is not, in general, well-educated and is, in general, prone to magical thinking. Letting people like that have all the drugs they want just seems idiotic to me.Edited by nator, : No reason given.

LMAOWhen did I ever say I was rational?
What makes my drug addiction right?
And I am definately not hiding behind my bible. It is my bible, and my belief in God, that helped me change my mind towards gay marraige. IT was that same God that helped me stop pot. Not that pot is even a big problem, but it was right for me to stop.Your whole comparison of these two issues is definately irrational. I am not predjudice. Don't worry, I am sure there something in it's place. Being an asshole, is just as bad as being a drug addict in some way. I am just as disgusted about drug addiction also. I hate what happened to me, but you can't live life with regrets, shit happens. Throughout my discussions, I have never used the bible as an exuse for anything. My thoughts and feelings about homosexual sex, and drugs, are purely my own.You have me pegged as some bible reading fundie or something, and I thought most people were over that by now. That is where you and me are completely different taz. I find it totally amazing that you think this way. I would never want to see any gay person shot on sight, I love them just as much as anyone else. I see no reason to irradicate them. We are all imperfect.Maybe you need to start doing some drugs. Don't think so, you have no clue. What is so funny is, you actually think you are righteous.Edited by riVeRraT, : No reason given.

^That was actually pretty funny.

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"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut."
-Stephen Colbert

If I can take an aspirin for a headache, or even Celexa for depression*, why can't I take medication for boredom? Or for "not-pleasure"?Why is "wanting to get high" any less of a legitimate medical disorder than, say, "social anxiety" or "restless leg syndrome"? Or pain? (Actually pain is a really hard condition to get doctors to medicate, as it turns out.)*keep in mind that, while it's understood that actual clinical depression is a physiological condition, there's absolutely no definitive diagnosis of depression. I was prescribed, and took, Celexa for months, based on the fact that I had a few of the symptoms of depression - but I wasn't physiologically depressed, I just hated my classes. When I dropped out the "symptoms" disappeared.They hand out drugs like candy for "feeling blue", or for "feeling anxious", or for "feeling ants crawling inside my legs." I don't understand why you think it's inherently illegitimate to medicate feelings of boredom or "not-yet-high-enough."

nator writes me:

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Except that Percodan, Percoset and Quaaludes do have legitimate medical applications and they are perfectly legal to use under a doctor's supervision.

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But that distinction is irrelevant to the issue of crime being associated with the use of an illegal drug. Although the specific situation you cited about your family wouldn't have occurred in relation to Prohibition, it's still true that violent crime and murder, even against innocent people, were part and parcel of the alcohol trade.

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But when you were a kid and buying and enjoying all of those illicit prescription drugs, did you ever once question how the seller obtained them?

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No, I freely acknowledge that. I'm not defending illegal drug use, not even my own; I'm just saying that I think you overstated your argument a bit. Perhaps I was wrong, but you seemed to be identifying illegal drug users as a class of people uniquely associated with criminal activity and the victimization of innocent people. I'm not so much arguing with your basic point as saying that there's a lot more people than just drug users who enjoy doing things they don't really need to do and that have negative consequences for innocent people.

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I kind of think that recreational prescription drugs are a luxury item that nobody actually needs and that letting people buy or simply give away whatever they want is a recipe to transform short-sighted, self-centered adolescent risk-takers with more money than sense into unproductive-at-best and criminal-at-worst people that the rest of us pay for, one way or the other.

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Good heavens, you make it sound almost as bad as legalized gambling!But seriously, there are lots of "luxury items that nobody actually needs". The simple fact that nobody actually needs a particular thing is not enough reason to make that thing illegal.I think for the most part you and I are in agreement.

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W.W.E.D.?

Told you I had a sense of humor....

Recognize that drug use is a vice, a vice that lowers you to a state lesser than that of an animal. By taking drugs you take away what makes you human. You take away your cognitive ability temporarily and often permanently especially if you took drugs in adolescence when the brain is still developing. Adolescence is a broad span of years for many.Not only is drug use immoral because of the destruction of one's cognitive ability but because as Kant and Christ wrote: one must "master thyself" before one knows how to treat others.Drug use is also immoral because of what Schrafinator wrote. A person who uses drugs does not reason well if at all and takes advantage of others.

I will bet cash money that you have never done hallucinogens.I say this because hallucinogens have the opposite effect of what you're saying. From the inside of your head, they temporarily raise you to Human.

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"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut."
-Stephen Colbert

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Recognize that drug use is a vice, a vice that lowers you to a state lesser than that of an animal. By taking drugs you take away what makes you human. You take away your cognitive ability temporarily and often permanently especially if you took drugs in adolescence when the brain is still developing. Adolescence is a broad span of years for many.

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In the spirit of the OP, what drugs have you tried and do you have any regrets?

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If I can take an aspirin for a headache, or even Celexa for depression*, why can't I take medication for boredom? Or for "not-pleasure"?

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Because "boredom" is not a medical condition.

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Why is "wanting to get high" any less of a legitimate medical disorder than, say, "social anxiety" or "restless leg syndrome"?

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"Wanting to get high" isn't a disorder at all. "Wanting to bodily harm someone when they really piss you off" isn't a disorder either.Anxiety and restless leg syndrome, however, can interfere with all aspects of a person's life and can even shorten one's life.No one has ever literally been bored to death.

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Or pain? (Actually pain is a really hard condition to get doctors to medicate, as it turns out.)

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Pain should be more agressively treated, I agree.

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*keep in mind that, while it's understood that actual clinical depression is a physiological condition, there's absolutely no definitive diagnosis of depression. I was prescribed, and took, Celexa for months, based on the fact that I had a few of the symptoms of depression - but I wasn't physiologically depressed, I just hated my classes. When I dropped out the "symptoms" disappeared.

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Then you were probably hastily misdiagnosed and prescribed a medication that you didn't need. That is a symptom of our cattle-barn style healthcare system and I don't think is related to the subject at hand.

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They hand out drugs like candy for "feeling blue", or for "feeling anxious", or for "feeling ants crawling inside my legs." I don't understand why you think it's inherently illegitimate to medicate feelings of boredom or "not-yet-high-enough."

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I don't think they should hand out drugs like candy for emotional problems. I think medication should be a last resort or a very short term leg-up. I think they are used as a cheap quick fix that the insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies encourage.

You sound like someone who not only has no real world drug use experience yourself, but no real world experience being around people who have used drugs. I've had acquaintances who used drugs for recreational purposes who experienced none of the things that you describe. If you include alcohol in the category of "drugs," then I have done so myself, on many occasions.I fully acknowledge that some drugs can have some of the effects you describe on some people, but to say that all drug use does all of those things is simply wrong. Consider it a vice if you like. Consider all people who use all drugs sub-human if you like. But don't try to justify your opinion with falsehoods. Reefer Madness was not cinema verite.

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

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I say this because hallucinogens have the opposite effect of what you're saying. From the inside of your head, they temporarily raise you to Human.

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Come on now, have you ever had a thought that you thought was profound while tripping that turned out not to be nonsense when you came down?I wouldn't say psychodelics make you less than an animal, but I don't think they raise you're awareness of reality (unless you think the rambling lunatic on the street corner really has the downpat on the nature of the world).