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Author Topic:   Jerry Falwell dead.
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 60 of 224 (400732)
05-16-2007 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Hyroglyphx
05-15-2007 6:52 PM


Re: A caveat
In fact, something has always struck me as odd about him.
What, besides the fact that any time he opened his mouth, a torrent of ignorant, insane bile poured forth?
However, I've got to say that I'm appalled by how the responders to this post thus far are gleefully cheering his death.
He wreaked incredible havoc on the structure and traditions of this country. He began a tradition of religious divisiveness and ignorance that is in full swing to this day, and many people throughout the world have paid the price with their lives.
The disrespect you're seeing right now is nothing compared to the disrespect to basic human dignity his ministry represented. I guess he loved his kids, but to the extent that they're going to grow up just like him even his parenting did the world a disservice.
What are we supposed to say, Buz? That he was a "good person"? He wasn't. He was a deep moral coward. He described the death of homosexuals as a cause for "celebration in heaven." This was a man who delighted in demagoguery and in putting people in their places; who delighted in seeing sinners come to punishment. Who delighted in fleecing his own parishioners by issuing fraudulent "church bonds."
This was not a good man. Can you be surprised that few are feeling dismayed by the death of a bad man? That many are happy that the most divisive and destructive figure in American religious politics has died with no heir apparent?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Hyroglyphx, posted 05-15-2007 6:52 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 71 of 224 (400775)
05-16-2007 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by ICANT
05-16-2007 4:39 PM


Re: A caveat
I am glad that the first 2 humans were not gay.
It's a common misunderstanding that homosexuals are sterile.
This is untrue. Homosexuals have children the exact same way that heterosexuals do - the sperm of a man combines with the ovum of a woman, and the woman carries the child to term. Being gay causes neither azoospermia in males nor prevents menstruation in females.
Honestly, ICANT. The vast, vast number of homosexuals with children - their own natural birth children - should have been sufficient to dispel the myth of "gay sterility." Don't you think things through before you post them?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by ICANT, posted 05-16-2007 4:39 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by ICANT, posted 05-16-2007 5:02 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 81 of 224 (400794)
05-16-2007 6:11 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by ICANT
05-16-2007 5:02 PM


Re: A caveat
I think for us to be here the first 2 humans was a man and a woman and they produced ofspring, or am I being my usual stupid self in believing that?
No, just ignorant. There's no such thing as "the first two humans." Now, understand that while it's true that you can trace all of human maternal ancestry back to one woman, and you can trace all of human paternal ancestry back to one man, that woman lived and died 80,000 years before that man was even born.
Not to send us totally off-topic, and if you have further questions or gay-bashing idiocy for us you should open a new thread, but if humankind had ever consisted of only two human beings, they and their children probably would have been the last human beings to ever live. Populations can't recover from a bottleneck of only 2 individuals.
Gay, straight, it doesn't matter. If it came down to only 2 human beings, human beings would very shortly go extinct.

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 85 of 224 (400801)
05-16-2007 7:10 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by ICANT
05-16-2007 4:53 PM


Re: No matter how evil
Taz I have been preaching since 1962 and I have yet to come across a person I can shove christianity down their throat. Care to explain how that can happen?
Imagine all the liquor stores and bars closing down because Muslims decided that, since alcohol was against their religion, nobody else should be allowed to drink, either. Imagine them just deciding this, and then not really allowing people to even talk about it. If you tried to point out what they had done, imagine that they would interrupt you and accuse you of being a "fundamentalist non-Muslim." So it would be hard to get the word out about what they were doing, because any time you tried to talk about it, they would drown you out with the statistics on alcoholism and drunk driving. The media would make it seem like the only two sides to the story was complete tee-totaling or complete drunkenness and alcoholism.
Wouldn't quite seem fair, would it? Probably not too many Muslims would notice, though. Would they? I mean they're not even going to bars, so why would they notice the absence?
That's what it would be like - and that's how you haven't yet noticed that its going on. You're a Christian, so you don't even notice when Christians make everybody else live like a Christian. From your perspective that's just the way normal people live.

This message is a reply to:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 114 of 224 (400850)
05-16-2007 10:25 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Hyroglyphx
05-16-2007 7:57 PM


Re: The summation of my point by One Charred Wing
quote:
He wreaked incredible havoc on the structure and traditions of this country. He began a tradition of religious divisiveness and ignorance that is in full swing to this day, and many people throughout the world have paid the price with their lives.
The disrespect you're seeing right now is nothing compared to the disrespect to basic human dignity his ministry represented. I guess he loved his kids, but to the extent that they're going to grow up just like him even his parenting did the world a disservice.
What are we supposed to say, Buz? That he was a "good person"? He wasn't. He was a deep moral coward. He described the death of homosexuals as a cause for "celebration in heaven." This was a man who delighted in demagoguery and in putting people in their places; who delighted in seeing sinners come to punishment. Who delighted in fleecing his own parishioners by issuing fraudulent "church bonds."
This was not a good man. Can you be surprised that few are feeling dismayed by the death of a bad man? That many are happy that the most divisive and destructive figure in American religious politics has died with no heir apparent?
But we have people here who are saying the most vile and meanspirited things about him.
You mean like the things he said while he was alive?
I've reproduced my earlier remarks in this thread. Can you point out where I've said something "vile and meanspirited"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Hyroglyphx, posted 05-16-2007 7:57 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 119 of 224 (400858)
05-16-2007 11:28 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by One_Charred_Wing
05-16-2007 11:18 PM


Re: 'Assuming' only makes an ass out of one person
I'd be thinking 'damn, bastard never got a chance to at least try and repent.'
He had his chance, according to the ghost writer of his autobiography (a gay man and the founder of SoulForce.) In the 90's I think it was, Falwell had an opportunity to make inroads into the gay Christian community, but he got such a pushback from the Moral Majority crowd that he soon retreated right back into bigotry.

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 133 of 224 (400905)
05-17-2007 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 125 by Buzsaw
05-17-2007 9:09 AM


Re: Falwell Biographer/Friend A Homosexual
I know this will be unwelcome news flash to your Christophobic bash fest here but guess who is doing Falwell's biography with the blessings of Jerry?
Unwelcome news? I told you that nearly 100 posts ago in this thread.
Keep it up with your "news flashes" that tell us stuff we've already talked about, though. It's hilarious how out of step you always are.
Mel says though he and Jerry have ideological differences, Jerry is an amiable and friendly guy.
I don't think it bespeaks much for ol' Jerry that he was friendly with his friends but railed against homosexuals. All it drives home is the hypocrisy that underlaid his bigotry, and it would seem to support Hitch's position that Falwell was a big phony. Even Mel White is glad this guy isn't around causing the damage he caused.
Oh - and, of course, "some of my best friends are gay" is the classic self-defense of bigots, just as "some of my best friends are black" is only something you'll hear racists say.
Edited by crashfrog, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 149 of 224 (401019)
05-17-2007 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by Hyroglyphx
05-17-2007 6:55 PM


Re: A caveat
Jerry Falwell hurt this country deeply? I was unaware that Rev. Falwell had enough influence to hurt the country deeply.
Do you even know who we're talking about? Jerry Falwell? One of the nation's most preeminent conservative Christians? Died a few days ago?
Because when you say he's "not even a blip on the radar screen", you're making it abundantly obvious you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. From Wikipedia:
quote:
In 1956, at age 22, Falwell became the founding pastor of the Thomas Road Baptist Church of Lynchburg (TRBC). Thirty-five adults were recorded as being in attendance at the church's first meeting in the elementary school that he had attended, and the offering was $135.[4] The church subsequently found its first permanent home in a structure which had been a Donald Duck Bottling Company building, a short distance from the location of what was at that time Brookville High School, subsequently Brookville Elementary School, and then the first campus of Liberty Baptist College, an institution of higher learning associated closely with the church and with Falwell. From these beginnings Thomas Road Baptist Church has grown to a membership in excess of 24,000, based in a 6,000 seat auditorium and an additional 1 million square feet of educational space. The church holds four services per week.[9] In July of 2006, TRBC celebrated its 50th anniversary and inaugurated its new building near Liberty University.
The September 21, 1987 issue of Time noted that Falwell "plunged" down a 163 foot "hellish" water slide in fulfillment of "a promise made during a fund-raising drive that netted $20 million for the debt-ridden PTL."[11] This drive eventually took The PTL Club, PTL TV network and Heritage USA from Jim Bakker.[12] "Bakker arranged for Falwell to take over PTL in March in an effort to avoid what he called a "hostile takeover" of the television ministry by people threatening to expose a sexual encounter he admitted to having seven years earlier with church secretary Jessica Hahn."[13]
Photos circulated of the event at the Typhoon waterslide at Heritage Island (located at Heritage USA). Falwell remained fully clothed. It was selected as "The Best of Photojournalism" in 1987 Pictures of the Year book presented by the National Press Photographers Association. In September 1999, The Associated Press selected it as one of the top 100 national photos of the century.[14]
In 1994, Falwell released the straight-to-video pseudo-documentary The Clinton Chronicles: An Investigation into the Alleged Criminal Activities of Bill Clinton. The video connected Clinton to a theoretical conspiracy involving Vincent Foster, James McDougall, Ron Brown, and an alleged cocaine-smuggling operation. Despite the theory's having been discredited by all major investigations, the video's sophisticated production techniques served as effective exposure, and sold over 150,000 copies.[25]
Yeah. Just a "blip on the radar screen." Honestly, the things you say sometimes, NJ. Makes me wonder if we live on the same planet.
There's no doubt whatsoever that Jerry Falwell was one of the main authors of the rise of Christianism within the Republican party; if you're one of those under the impression that there's not a wall of separation between church and state in this country, it's directly because of Falwell's regular pronouncements to that effect. If you think he's not even a "blip", then I invite you to tune into your local Christian radio station, where they're eulogizing the man 24-7.
I don't know where you got the idea that this man had little or no influence. If he had so little influence, what was he doing during all those White House visits? Do you think the Bush administration brought him in every other week to sweep up the place?

This message is a reply to:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 150 of 224 (401021)
05-17-2007 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by Hyroglyphx
05-17-2007 7:39 PM


Re: A reply to nemesis's "caveat"
These people are acting like Jerry Falwell held the world in the palm of his hand, twisting his moustache, and hatching diabolic plans to destroy the earth.
No, but he had an incredible amount of influence which he used to block civil rights for several classes of people. He pushed forward a political and religious agenda that was divisive and destructive.
And moreover, because of the "Rev" in front of his name, he was almost completely immune to challenge. He could say whatever he wanted and people accepted it, because of his station. (That's a pretty good racket.) Of course, when he committed fraud against his own congregation by issuing phony "church bonds", his station insulated him from prosecution.
He was a figure with whom politicians were falling all over themselves to curry favor with. Even John McCain, who called him an "agent of intolerance" in 2000, was genuflecting to kiss his ring (and his ass) just 6 years later. No influence? I don't see how you could possibly support such a contention.
I mean, come on. What's up with all the comparisons to Hitler. Hitler?
It's an apt comparison - two figures who rose to power on a tide of demagoguery, by demonizing a powerless minority. For Hitler, it was the Jews - for Falwell, it was the gays. (And also the Jews. He wasn't terribly creative, I guess.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by Hyroglyphx, posted 05-17-2007 7:39 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 163 of 224 (401235)
05-18-2007 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Hyroglyphx
05-18-2007 6:12 PM


Re: A caveat
Yet, for some reason, many Christians blast homosexuals with more ferosity than another form of sexual sin. Many Christians single homosexuality as being "more" sinful. I think this is the wrong attitude to have.
Not "for some reason;" because people like Falwell made an industry out of rousing people into homophobia. People like Falwell told their congregations that the gay couple down the street wasn't just two men with a weird lifestyle - they were predators who were coming after your children unless you did everything in your power to run them out of town as soon as possible - "oh, and by the way, buy my book that will tell you just how to do that."
Yeah. "For some reason." You're amazing, Nem. So much just completely escapes your notice.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Hyroglyphx, posted 05-18-2007 6:12 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by Hyroglyphx, posted 05-20-2007 1:36 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 168 of 224 (401277)
05-18-2007 11:45 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by Trump won
05-18-2007 9:35 PM


Oh come on guys, even though his views may have been wrong, he was still a human who deserves respect!
What, for dying? Any idiot can do that. I hardly see it as so great an accomplishment that it offsets a life spend marginalizing and demonizing minorities, all for the sake of filthy lucre.
Respect isn't deserved, it's earned; Falwell earned plenty of money but he did nothing to earn our respect.

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 170 of 224 (401284)
05-19-2007 2:35 AM
Reply to: Message 169 by -messenjah of one2
05-19-2007 12:37 AM


Re: NOT MESSENJAH OF ONE
Seek help for your personality disorder.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by -messenjah of one2, posted 05-19-2007 12:37 AM -messenjah of one2 has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 178 of 224 (401529)
05-20-2007 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by Hyroglyphx
05-20-2007 1:36 PM


Re: A caveat
I've grown tired of this thread because so much escapes your attention-- namely, the fact that you glibly overlook the hypocrisy of the thread.
I've only noticed the hypocrisy of those who, in this thread, maintain that it violates decorum to criticize the dead; but in other threads, do so with impunity.
Why, what hypocrisy have you been referring to?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by Hyroglyphx, posted 05-20-2007 1:36 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 180 of 224 (401746)
05-21-2007 9:49 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by One_Charred_Wing
05-21-2007 8:43 PM


Re: Finals
I guess my only problem was cutting him down right after he died, call me an old fashioned youngster.
It's not like he's going to get any less dead.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 05-21-2007 8:43 PM One_Charred_Wing has not replied

  
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