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Author | Topic: A Deteriorating State :: Morality in the 21st Century | |||||||||||||||||||||||
AdminModulous Administrator Posts: 897 Joined: |
Atheism is in danger of becoming the central focus of this topic.
There are several threads out there: Atheism Examined or the still open Get Over Your Fear of Atheism The question asked in the OP is: Does the state of our morality still risk such deterioration at the hands of the virus of religious fundamentalism? Where do we stand? New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts.
Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to:
General discussion of moderation procedures Thread Reopen Requests Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum Other useful links:
Forum Guidelines, Observations about Evolution and This could be interesting.... |
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3478 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:What examples do you have of religious fundamentalism actually bringing "our" moral system down? The group in the article is probably hurting their own cause because of their methods. Did they succeed in changing anyone's moral behavior?
quote:What do you mean unchecked? Unchecked for what? What evidence shows you that fundamentalism is actually spreading? quote:By going into a school under false pretenses, the group undermines their own message. They didn't stick to the program they promised. I think the existence of the group is par for the course. IMO, there are always going to be dissatisfied groups. "Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz
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jar Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
The principal, equally as shocked, gave an apology for originally inviting the group to the school. You have to wonder about the competence of the principal, since the agenda of "You Can Run but You Can't Hide" as well as JYP is pretty well known and clearly stated by them in all of their literature and even their website. The issue in your example is not in the agenda of the speakers, but rather the absurd statement that the principal was surprised or shocked. For that to be true the principal was either woefully negligent in doing even a cursory diligence or dumber than a red brick. It is far more reasonable that the agenda was known beforehand but that the principal misjudged what the reaction of the students would be. As to the question asked, which seems unrelated to the example you used, you asked:
Is religious fundamentalism bringing our moral system down faster than Agnostic beliefs can rebuild it? I am curious how you think the example you cite has anything to do with morality? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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anglagard Member (Idle past 857 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
My position is that morality is both subjective and relative but according to current utilitarian standards, it is actually increasing over time. The argument is in the now closed thread Message 1
Naturally there are other standards than the greatest good for the greatest number, such as those found among bigots, ultranationalists, and religious fanatics.
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iceage  Suspended Member (Idle past 5936 days) Posts: 1024 From: Pacific Northwest Joined: |
pd writes: What examples do you have of religious fundamentalism actually bringing "our" moral system down? Examples? Historically...
Contemporary...
Edited by iceage, : No reason given.
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Jon Inactive Member |
I am curious how you think the example you cite has anything to do with morality? Well, the purpose of the group was to spread flawed morals. Now, there were a lot of pissed off students, and a deal of angry teachers as well. But, one could imagine, there were also a small sect in that crowd that either agreed fully with the group's message, or was swayed from a previous system of morality. This ties in with the main topic of the post, which is whether or not the religious fundamentalists are ripping society's morality apart through efforts such as this. Or whether there are enough people like the students who walked out that realize what they did was wrong. Either the mindset of the group is spreading, or it isn't. I'm not exactly sure where the world stands in regards to that, so I asked the question here And was primarily prompted to think of it because of that news report.
The issue in your example is not in the agenda of the speakers, but rather the absurd statement that the principal was surprised or shocked. For that to be true the principal was either woefully negligent in doing even a cursory diligence or dumber than a red brick. It is far more reasonable that the agenda was known beforehand but that the principal misjudged what the reaction of the students would be. That's a very interesting observation! I was wondering myself how someone could bring in a group like that without ever checking their website. Perhaps the principal knew all along! Jon
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Jon Inactive Member |
What examples do you have of religious fundamentalism actually bringing "our" moral system down? The group in the article is probably hurting their own cause because of their methods. Did they succeed in changing anyone's moral behavior? Actually, I wasn't trying to make an argument. I was just asking a question, which this quote answers
What do you mean unchecked? Unchecked for what? What evidence shows you that fundamentalism is actually spreading? Everything always spreads. Jon
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3478 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
purpledawn writes: What examples do you have of religious fundamentalism actually bringing "our" moral system down? Maybe I misunderstood what Jon was saying (which seems to be par for the course); but when he said "bringing our moral system down", my impression is that he is talking about our current secular moral system actually changing. I didn't think he was talking about the behavior of specialty groups.
quote: How have any of those things changed our current secular moral system for the worst? "Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3478 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
Let me try this another way.
What do you mean by bringing our moral system down?
quote:One of these days you will learn to stop making absolute statements. You know as well as I do that that isn't a true statement. What makes you feel that fundamentalism is a virus or is spreading? "Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz
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fallacycop Member (Idle past 5541 days) Posts: 692 From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil Joined: |
People say that there is a monster in Loch Ness. ... Is it not the more credible stance to conclude that the beastie does not exist? While, at the same time, acknowledging my limitations in proving this non-existence?
No. The most credible and honest stance is to 'not conclude he does exist.' OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message or continue in this vein. Take comments to the Moderation Thread. AdminPD Edited by fallacycop, : typos Edited by AdminPD, : Warning
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nator Member (Idle past 2191 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Usually education.
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nator Member (Idle past 2191 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
So, what characterizes all liberals and religious fundamentalists such that they can be considered one and the same?
Defining your terms would be welcome. Edited by nator, : No reason given.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
quote: Usually education. *snicker* Actually, if their god makes better pancakes, I'm totally switching sides. -- Charley the Australopithecine
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Jon Inactive Member |
quote: Usually education. So, as one becomes more educated, one also becomes more liberal? Will you back up that that is usually the case?
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Jon Inactive Member |
So, what characterizes all liberals and religious fundamentalists such that they can be considered one and the same? Defining your terms would be welcome. Not all liberals, just liberals in general. Liberal, conservative, religious fundamentalist, atheist, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc. are all systems of morality/beliefs. Agnosticism is the method of logical evaluation of only those things known, with no assumptions, upon which science, truth, and knowledge are built. Jon
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