Prostitution-what to do

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We've taken the position that there's no problem, that these gals aren't any different than the rest of us”just business folks doing a job they like. Some might not like their job; I don't like mine. I'm pretty convinced that they are just like everyone else.

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Why are you convinced of that?How many little girls do you know who dream of becoming prostitutes when they grow up (or dream of being prostitutes when they are still little girls)?Anyway, There are studies in the literature which document the high incidence of childhood sexual abuse, poverty, and drug abuse associated with entering prostitution, but I don't have access to the journal articles.I did find this, though, which is a brief summary of some of the work of several prominent prostitution researchers: Article from the Journal of Sex Research: And I know crashfrg said "the sex industry" but since the OP specifically referred to male and female prostitutes, that's what I was talking about.So, do YOU have any research to show that prostitutes freely choose that work from many other opportunities and find it fulfilling?Edited by nator, : No reason given.Edited by nator, : No reason given.

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I doubt you could find any field of employment where most people came from homes where they were protected from abuse, were well-educated, and were afforded many opportunities to choose from a wide variety of career path.

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I think you can. I think that it is likely that people who succeed in academically-demanding professions tend to come from supportive families where they weren't buggered by their uncle and told they were worthless, and who were encouraged to do well in school and were given the choice to go to any college they could get into.

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I don't mean to suggest that the majority of people involved in prostitution are anything but exploited in nearly every conceivable way. But cracking down on prostitution has never had much of a positive effect; on the other hand, drawing the business (and it is a business) out into the light, and into the reach of unionization and regulation, has had great positive effects for both prostitutes and their clients just about everywhere it's been tried.

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I am not disputing that fact at all.What I am disputing is the claim that "many" prostitutes find their work satisfying and fulfilling.I know very well that in the Netherlands, where prostitution os legal and regulated, they have a much better life. However, they still have significant problems with human trafficking there.

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People need to have sex. It's good for you. Having sex within the confines of a personal relationship isn't always an option for everybody. On its face, I don't see what's inherently wrong with prostitution. In practice, it's an exploitative nightmare for the vast majority of people involved.

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Right.So maybe the use of "many" in judging how many prostitutes find their work fulfilling was a little bit of wishful thinking?And, it is naieve to think that prostitution is only about sex.(AbE: As far as the heath aspects of sex, it is sexual release that is healthy, as in having an orgasm. There's very few people who can't manage this by themselves. In fact, most people's bodies do it in their sleep occasionally. There is no intrinsic reason anyone has to purchase the use of another person's body in order to have an orgasm.)Edited by nator, : No reason given.

I don't know of any little girls, however I did know a teenage girl (13 yo) who wanted to be a prostitute. A few years back I met a prostitute who had always wanted to do lap dancing and prostitution when she was younger. She had a stable and happy family and was sober. I can't speak for anyone else though.Still, I do concede that the majority of prostitutes I've spoken with (in the UK) have been involved with hard drugs (incl alohol).

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I don't know of any little girls, however I did know a teenage girl (13 yo) who wanted to be a prostitute.

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Do you know if she had she been sexually abused? I personally wouldn't have known what being a protitute entailed at the age of 13 since I was still a tomboy, running around the woods and playing softball. 13 is awfully young to have an opinion on prostitution as a career.

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A few years back I met a prostitute who had always wanted to do lap dancing and prostitution when she was younger. She had a stable and happy family and was sober. I can't speak for anyone else though.

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Then more power to her.I wonder how many prostitutes there would be in the world if only people like this woman entered the work?

I knew her and her family reasonably well. All I can say is that no, there was no mention of sexual abuse. Nor need there have been - we were all sexually active around this age and we were both aware of the prostitution industry.

Well, look. I don't know how many you would consider "many". If it'll be less contentious, I'll stipulate "some". Plus there's all the clients of prostitution; nearly 70% of American males have paid money for sex at least once.Who are we to say that they don't have a legitimate purpose in doing so? Certainly, as it stands, their patronage supports exploitation; but that's akin to arguing that Prohibition should never have been ended because buying beer and liquor gives money to the Mob.Well, it did at the time, but as we know now, it doesn't have to. Patronage of prostitution doesn't have to fund exploitation and sex trafficking, but obviously I'm sensitive to the fact that it does. Well, I don't want to have an argument about what words mean. If you think by "many" I meant "most", I assure you that isn't the case. What I meant was "more than one" or even "a number too significant to simply ignore." In a survey I read while reading up on this issue, a number of street and brothel prostitutes were asked if it was their preference to leave prostitution, and if so, what conditions would be required for them to do that.87% of the sex workers interviewed asserted that they would like to leave prostitution. That implies as many as 13% (but most likely less) who are just fine with being prostitutes. I guess I'd like to see some evidence of that. I'm not saying that nobody ever pays for a prostitute because they find that act itself demeaning to a woman, but I can't possibly see that as the general state of affairs. It's somewhat like saying you read Playboy for the articles, and I would level the same charge of naivete right back at you, questioning if perhaps your assertion here isn't just a way to avoid the position that "prostitution" actually includes completely legitimate, positive sexual interactions. In fact I think the research indicates that actual intercourse is more healthy than masturbation. For instance, here's a paper that describes some of the the physiological differences between intercourse and masturbation (aside from the obvious.) Waking Up in SFFurthermore, they discuss the body of literature supporting intercourse as being more healthy than masturbation.

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The results are also consistent with the growing literature
on penile-vaginal intercourse differing from other sexual
behaviors, notably with regard to intercourse being
associated with indices of better physical and psychological
function (Brody, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006; Brody and Preut,
2003; Brody et al., 2003, 2000; Cyranowski et al., 2004;
Frohlich and Meston, 2002; Leiblum et al., 1983). The
results raise the possibility that at least part of the means by
which intercourse becomes associated with better physical
and psychological function involves the mechanism of
intercourse orgasm resulting in greater phasic peripheral
prolactin increases.

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I offer this as evidence that there's a considerable scientific consensus that intercourse (specifically penile-vaginal, which I daresay is what we're talking about with most prostitution) is associated with greater health benefits than masturbation and certainly abstinence.

No reason at all.
Thanks for the input.
Regards
DL

Ever worked in the fast food industry? How many of those people use drugs? How many of them are also prostitutes?Showing a correlation between drug use and prostitution does not also demonstrate that one is a cause of the other; afterall, from this we could equally conclude that prostitution is a cause of drug use, or that drug use is a cause for prostitution. You need to make sure that your statistics actually point to the cause of which you speak.The same is true of sexual abuse. I know people who were sexually abused as children... guess what? They're not prostitutes. You need to also show that sexual abuse is a cause and not just a coincidental correlation when it comes to prostitution. Not everyone lives in a plastic bubble resembling a 1950's sitcom. Once again, I'm willing to live and let live. If you want to call for action, you need to demonstrate that such action is required. Otherwise, you're just wasting our time.Jon[abe]Also, the study only examined street prostitutes. As far as I can tell, we've all been arguing for legalized and commercialized prostitution so that women don't have to sleep on the streets. How do you think your statistics would change if people would be allowed to open non-underground brothels and run them within full government regulations and guidelines?[/abe]Edited by Jon, : A.B.E. :-)

You have to also look into the possibility that there might be a lot more women who'd choose to be prostitutes if it weren't illegal. In the same way, more people would probably try various drugs.So, how many people do you think want to be prostitutes but choose not to out of fear of the law?Jon

In a vicious circle, how do you tell which is cause and which is effect?

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And how many prostitutes declined to participate in the study, even, out of fear of discovery and legal reprisals?The entire picture changes when legalization and regulation enter the picture. We should look to places like Nevada, Germany, the Netherlands, and other places where legal brothels operate, and compare the negatives of prostitution here where it is illegal with the results of the policy changes in those locations. Otherwise, any opinion will be based entirely on a set of problems that exists primarily because it is an illegal enterprise, much like comparing the miserable life of an illegal immigrant forced into sexual slavery with a legal immigrant who has legal recourse to avoid such a fate. Or comparing a cigarette smoker to a crack junkie. Or a modern bar to a speakeasy during prohibition.The entire picture, including motivations and contributing factors such as drugs, pimps, sexual abuse, poverty, and victimization is radically changed when an illegal practice becomes accepted and the workers protected by the law.

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Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

Prostitution is legal in Denmark, and a couple of years ago there was a survey of clients.Studies of prostitution often focus on the prostitutes, but this report focused on the clients.Of the 6,350 men answering the survey 880 had used prostitutes, that amounts to 14%, which was on level with what other surveys showed.It showed that the younger the male was when he first bought sex, the greater his reliance on buying sex.Only about 1 in 10 says that he frequents prostitutes - in part -because of "special desires", 60% say that they - in part - do it because they felt buyig sex was something they had to try. 36% answered yes to the statement that they buy sex because they do not have to commit to anything (they could check multiple boxes, so they could state more than one reason)The kind of sex they buy is only a little different than the sex they have with their spouses or partners.96% say they buy soft sex, and 98% describe the sex they do not buy as soft.7% buy rough sex, and 4% buy roleplaying, while 8% and 9% respectively claim they have rough sex and roleplaying with "regular" partners.Clients in steady relationships are the ones most likely to "break the mold" when they buy sex and have rough sex or roleplaying, that they do not have with their partners.These results are all from surveys of the clients, so they have known problem with bias, but they never the less suggest that it is not special wishes that is the main driving force for the use of prostitutes.The survey can be found on the webspace for Danish Centre for Research on Social Vulnerability, but is only in Danish
http://www.vfcudsatte.dk/page90.asp

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I know people who were sexually abused as children... guess what? They're not prostitutes.

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Right, becasue not all people who are sexually abused as children end up in prostitution, which I never claimed.However, the majority of people who are prostitutes were.

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Not everyone lives in a plastic bubble resembling a 1950's sitcom.

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Unresponsive and nonsensical.It IS, however, a fantasy to believe that prostitutes, in general, freely choose that profession even though they came from happy, supportive homes, were not sexually abused as children, received good educations and were afforded the choice to persue higher education in any career that interested them.

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Once again, I'm willing to live and let live.

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Hold on now. You made a claim, which was stated in Message 14:

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We've taken the position that there's no problem, that these gals aren't any different than the rest of us”just business folks doing a job they like. Some might not like their job; I don't like mine. I'm pretty convinced that they are just like everyone else.

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I've presented evidence that your claim is unlikely to be true.It is your turn to support your claim or retract it.

How many men would want to be prostitutes if it weren't for fear of the law?Would you consider it? Any of your male friends? If your father had to flee your mother because she threatened to kill him, would he sell his body for money just to keep himself and his kids alive since they were now on the streets? Edited by nator, : No reason given.

Getting paid to have sex?You have just described every boys dream job.Percentage?Probably somewhere around 99 and 44/100^ths..

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