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Author Topic:   Did dinosaurs and man coexist?
Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5898 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 48 of 60 (40203)
05-15-2003 7:51 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by compmage
05-15-2003 3:32 AM


Hi compmage,
Unless I am seriously mistake, bird are NOT considered dinosaurs. Birds are thought to have evolved from reptiles. There is still some debate as to if these reptiles were dinosaurs or not.
I'm not sure this is entirely accurate. It's pretty sure that Longisquama was the first feathered reptile - a glider, apparently - dating to about 130 mya (or about 70 my before Archeopteryx). However, there's a huge gap (no transitional fossils ) between Longisquama and modern birds. OTOH, with the recent discovery of Sinosauropteryx (at 120 mya) - a true feathered, gliding dino - we have an example where dinos also evolved feathers. Additionally, we have close matches with pretty-much-modern birds in the Cretaceous (specifically flying Ichthyornis and flightless Hespornis), that have quite a few similarities with characteristics found in dinos like Deinonychus. Finally, we have recent microscopic evidence from collagen bundle and canaliculi patterns on dino bones (specifically coelurosaurs) that are consistent with patterns found in modern birds - but not in modern reptiles.
From gross morphology to microstructures, it appears that the dino-bird link is pretty strong (after suffering a bit of a blow with the discovery of Longisquama). So - every time you eat a chicken, just remember that the chicken's ancestors used to eat yours.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by compmage, posted 05-15-2003 3:32 AM compmage has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by compmage, posted 05-15-2003 8:27 AM Quetzal has replied

  
Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5898 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 50 of 60 (40213)
05-15-2003 9:00 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by compmage
05-15-2003 8:27 AM


I wasn't aware that the issue had been entirely decided.
You're right, of course. The issue hasn't been definitively decided - and maybe never will without a much better fossil assemblage. I just wanted to point out that it appears the weight of evidence is swinging back toward the dino-bird linkage rather than as you stated, the reptile-bird linkage. Every time a new fossil gets discovered from the relevant time frames, there is a re-assessment. No reason to think it won't happen again.
However, just as humans are not reptiles even if we descended from them, chickens (birds) are not dinosaurs, even if they descended from them.
Obviously true, as far as it goes. It really just depends on how far back the node is you want to play with. However, in the context of the quip about chickens as dinos, the fact that chicken ancestors diverged more recently from dino ancestors than either did from their joint diapsid reptilian ancestors makes the quip relevant (more or less). Moreover, the last time humans shared a common ancestor with ANY modern reptile - or chicken - is when we were all somewhere back in the Permian. From that point, the multiply-branching lineage that ultimately ended up in chicken - running through the dinos - and the multiply-branching lineage that ultimately ended up as us - passing through all the various stages of mammalian descent - have run in parallel. IOW, our ancestors lived in the shadow of the chicken's ancestors - hence co-existed. Now, it's the other way around, and the dino's descendants live in the shadows of Eomaia's descendants.
I admit it was a weak joke, but damn! Take it a little lighter, will you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by compmage, posted 05-15-2003 8:27 AM compmage has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by compmage, posted 05-15-2003 10:08 AM Quetzal has not replied

  
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