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Author Topic:   A Question of the Heart
Faithful Servant
Junior Member (Idle past 6173 days)
Posts: 9
Joined: 05-28-2007


Message 1 of 36 (402606)
05-28-2007 9:34 PM


As I go about the internet following the ongoing debate between evolutionist and creationists, there is one concept I never seem to come across. There seems to be so much evidence in favor of evolutionism and not so much in the way of rock-hard fact when it comes to creationism, mainly because religion is about faith and not fact. But, there is one area that believers (or Christians, to be more accurate) have up their sleeve, and it's an area that neither evolutionists nor scientists have been able to even touch, while being the one area the Bible, Jesus Christ and God focus on the most. The heart. The mind. Consciousness. Whatever you wanna call it, that little part of humanity that gives us the ability to analyze, think and create. Our minds have a capacity for understanding that is far and away leagues above and beyond any other so-called "species" that, comparing us to animals begins to sound preposterous. And no one can explain it. For all of science's "physical" evidence, they can say absolutely nothing of the one thing that makes us who we are, because it has no "physical" properties to speak of. And it's the one thing EVERYBODY belives in. Why can't scientists account for this "unseen" aspect of life that we all know is there? Might it be because it is the ESSENCE of something else? Something greater than our "physical" bodies can detect? No one, it seems, can say. But, there was one who lived, who laid out exactly what this "unseen property" of humanity was, how it came about, and what happens to it in the end. His name was Jesus Christ. His revelation about this aspect of humanity was so great that, no one has been able to touch it since. Sure, many scholars and philosophers waxed poetic about what they "belived", but none of them were as clear and consice as he was. He spoke with authority about the condition of sin, right and wrong, and the hearts of men, and every single person living can attest to the truths about the inherent evil in the world because of sin, and that little "something" inside us that has a desire to do right. So, for what might be the first time (at least for me), let's us sit down and talk about this aspect of humanity that, at the very least, all of us belive exists in one form or another.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AdminCoragyps, posted 05-28-2007 9:58 PM Faithful Servant has replied
 Message 8 by crashfrog, posted 05-29-2007 10:14 AM Faithful Servant has not replied
 Message 9 by Chiroptera, posted 05-29-2007 10:59 AM Faithful Servant has not replied
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Faithful Servant
Junior Member (Idle past 6173 days)
Posts: 9
Joined: 05-28-2007


Message 3 of 36 (402615)
05-28-2007 10:31 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminCoragyps
05-28-2007 9:58 PM


Absolutely.
The heart, as the bible refers to it, is the nature of an individual (a.k.a Spirit).
The mind is the part of us that thinks, which is led by the heart.
Consciousness is a combination of the two, the concept of existing.
See, the mind (a.k.a Flesh) looks to please the body, and the heart is more concerned with reconciling with God. Therefore there is a constant struggle between the two in children of God, those who are preordained to be saved.
The Flesh and The Spirit. The mind and the heart. Consciousness. The "observer" in us.
This is the way I understand it to be, as the Holy Scriptures explain it. Is that clearer?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by AdminCoragyps, posted 05-28-2007 9:58 PM AdminCoragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by AdminSchraf, posted 05-28-2007 10:41 PM Faithful Servant has replied

  
Faithful Servant
Junior Member (Idle past 6173 days)
Posts: 9
Joined: 05-28-2007


Message 5 of 36 (402627)
05-29-2007 12:53 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by AdminSchraf
05-28-2007 10:41 PM


I'm gonna say Faith and Belief, because what I say is heavily influenced by the Bible. But, I'm interested in what the scientific community has to say here also because, even though study is being conducted on cognition, I just don't feel it "measures up" to the accuracy and clarity of the Bible account. But, Faith and Belief is fine.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Larni, posted 05-29-2007 8:46 AM Faithful Servant has replied

  
Faithful Servant
Junior Member (Idle past 6173 days)
Posts: 9
Joined: 05-28-2007


Message 16 of 36 (402763)
05-29-2007 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Larni
05-29-2007 8:46 AM


All of it. There is much research in this area but, the bible is direct and to the point about the who, what, where and when with regards to cognition. It tells us who created it (God), what it is (a soul), where it comes from (His own image) and when it was created (preordained before time). It doesn't give us ALL the answers, and it tells us WHY it doesn't do that as well. Every other religion and science has something to say on it, and very thorough, logical arguments, I might add. But, only the bible speaks to man's condition in relation to sin.
Sin is NOT, contrary to popular belief, doing "wrong". It is not doing the will of the creator, plain and simple. Using His creation (meaning 'all things in heaven and earth') in a way that it wasn't created for is sin. Which is why homosexuality is called sin, because your using your body in a way in which it wasn't intended or created for.
This concept also extends to the mind, or spirit, where an individual uses his volition (or free will) to do what 'they' want to do, rather than what God wants. And God isn't unfair about it, either. He simply states that those who don't wish to do his will have a place set aside, away from the holiness of heaven. They won't be destroyed or annihilated, simply separated and left to their own devices.
This is definite, direct, to-the-point information that, even logically, 'sounds' correct, simply because of what you know about yourself.
See, science and religion can poke around in other people's hearts and lives forever but, the true testimony of what the bible says can only clearly be seen by looking into 'yourself', and seeing that 'fleshly' desire to turn away from what the bible says, while still sensing that 'teeny, tiny thing' inside that inherently knows right from wrong. Which is, in layman terms, your will vs. God's will.
Research is just that, research. And they're barely scratching the surface of what that 'ancient text' has laid out for us already for thousands of years. I applaud science, it's brought us this far. But, science can only understand nature because it uses nature to try and explain unnatural concepts. I understand that science can tell us how we think, why we think, what we think about, where thinking takes place. But, it will never be able to tell what it is because of the methods it uses to try to explain it.
I think it's similar to the way a robot will never be able to fully understand a human, no matter how sophisticated it's AI is. The reason for that being that a creation cannot be used to FULLY define the creator.
Since we are getting deep into this here, I wanna pose a question to all those who want to debate what I'm saying here. What does science have to say about the law of cause and effect? From what I understand, nothing from nothing equals nothing. So, how could this universe come about without a cause? I've heard the big bang theory and all that, but it deviates from, rather than addresses the question. If, in the beginning,(there has to be a beginning because this universe contains energy that is slowly being depleted, eventually to nothing) there was NOTHING, where did ANYTHING come from?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Larni, posted 05-29-2007 8:46 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by jar, posted 05-29-2007 10:21 PM Faithful Servant has replied
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Faithful Servant
Junior Member (Idle past 6173 days)
Posts: 9
Joined: 05-28-2007


Message 22 of 36 (402785)
05-29-2007 11:48 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by jar
05-29-2007 10:21 PM


Re: More nonsense and irrelevancies.
You seem to be harshly offensive towards Christianity. Who told you that sin is irrelevant? Is that your own assertation, something you heard, scientific theory, or a revelation? Either sin is a triviality, or it's the truth. And, I doubt you have proof that it isn't. If I were gonna be on one side of the fence, I'd stay on the side of sin being truth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by jar, posted 05-29-2007 10:21 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by jar, posted 05-29-2007 11:52 PM Faithful Servant has replied

  
Faithful Servant
Junior Member (Idle past 6173 days)
Posts: 9
Joined: 05-28-2007


Message 26 of 36 (402796)
05-30-2007 12:12 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by jar
05-29-2007 11:52 PM


Re: More nonsense and irrelevancies.
Understanding what right or wrong is begins by understanding what sin is. Because your salvation is between you and God doesn't make sin irrelevant. To understand it, you must discuss it, and each and every individual can attest to the validity of the biblical account of sin.
It's not irrelevant because our inclination to sin is evidence of what the bible says about it, and the bible seems to me to be the clearest account of the human condition. Right and wrong, consciousness and the fact of evolution are touched on in the bible, which gives weight to the validity of the bible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by jar, posted 05-29-2007 11:52 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by crashfrog, posted 05-30-2007 12:16 AM Faithful Servant has not replied
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