The God of the Bible is Evil

Ringo asks me:

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So it's clear then that the "evil" is in your perception and not in the portrayal itself?

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If you insist. As I see it, any portrayal of the killing of millions of innocent people in exceedingly cruel ways would seem evil. But then I guess that would just be my perception. Silly me.

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W.W.E.D.?

jar writes me:

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So far several examples have been introduced. None have shown an evil God.

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The god who ordered the revenge killings of the Amalekites on a whim was an evil god. But just like I was saying to Ringo about Hitler, that's just my perception of evil. Others might have different perceptions about revenge killings.

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W.W.E.D.?

Ringo writes me:

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What strikes me as silly about this thread is that we see atheists arguing for an absolute morality.

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What strikes me as silly are christians.Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Add the stop sign.

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W.W.E.D.?

jar writes me:

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Well, since you have not specified what it is you are referring to, I assume that it is Samuel 15.

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Is there another place where god ordered the Amalekites slaughtered mercilessly?

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Like the tale of the Pied Piper, the point is different than the images used to push the thought home. In this case the point of the story was that simple ceremony or profession is not what counts, it is actually listening and doing what God wants you to do and that neither ceremony or position will count.

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Yes, yes, I know. All about context. I guess I'm just a dumb old atheist who doesn't get the exalted christian ideals of goodness and morality. To me, genocide is evil. Without exceptions and regardless of context.You've painted a picture of a god who is perhaps ignorant, who perhaps doesn't have any supernatural powers and who is perhaps not good at all. You may be right, God might be nothing more than an immortal man.Still, it seems curious that god can be shaped and molded into whatever form is necessary to avoid having him blamed for any of his unjust, unrightous and evil actions.If I were still a christian, I think this thread might well be enough to drive me to atheism.If you wish to carry this further, I'd like you to answer one question: is god all-knowing or is he ignorant? You're trying to have it both ways, suggesting on the one hand that he isn't all-knowing then backing away from your suggestion when I take it at face value. So please tell me where you stand and quit trying to go back and forth.

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W.W.E.D.?

jar writes me:

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...you are once again conflating GOD and the God of the Bible.

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No, I'm talking about the god of the bible. Just like I said about Richard III - we can judge the Richard that Shakespeare created or we can judge the historical Richard. We can't judge both at the same time.Besides, how can I conflate the "real" God with the God of the bible if there is no God of the bible?I'm not giving any consideration at all to what god might be like outside of the bible; I'm considering only what the bible has to say. At best, it's a mixed picture. God might be good, but I still maintain that, as he is presented to us in the bible, he is guilty of doing many evil things.I have allowed that, if God is ignorant, he might have done those actions without any evil intent. But like I just said to Ringo in the moderation issues thread, good people can do evil things. So maybe I haven't established that the god of the bible is evil, but to my mind there can be no question that he is at least capable of evil.

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W.W.E.D.?

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The Bible itself says that God creates good and evil.

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That's another way of looking at it. If God created both good and evil, then it would stand to reason that he is not only capable of good and evil but also that he IS both good and evil, thus affirming the title of this thread. That title may only tell half the story, but if we can at least agree that killing an innocent child is always evil - even in spite of the fact that such evil might be done by a good person(s) or a good god or a good society with the purest of motives - we should be able to agree that the god of the bible is, at least in part, evil. We must, of course, suspend disbelief and assume that the biblical stories about this god are correct, which in reality I think we agree they're not. But in making that temporary assumption, once again, we're only judging a fictional character.

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W.W.E.D.?

In response to a comment from me that probably should have been posted here, Tazmanian Devil wrote to me in the moderation issues thread:

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berberry writes:

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Sometimes ignorance can be a mitigating circumstance, but no circumstance can ever remove the immorality of, for instance, killing an innocent child.

I suggest you just give up on this one. Obviously, some people don't see anything wrong with killing innocent people in certain contexts. And also obviously, we can't really say anything more than "why is it a bad thing? Because it's obviously a bad thing..."

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Just do what I do and sit tight waiting for them to die of old age

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Hehe, yeah I probably should. But these are the mostly right-thinking folks that you and I are arguing with this time round. It's kinda nice to have a more or less friendly disagreement now and then.

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W.W.E.D.?

Catholic Scientist writes me:

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What about mercy killing?

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Or abortion?

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Well, I'm not part of the "every sperm is sacred" crowd, so I don't see abortion as murder. I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with mercy killing, either. Both of those situations are far removed from killing of firstborns as recorded in the bible.

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W.W.E.D.?