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Author Topic:   A Question of the Heart
Equinox
Member (Idle past 5142 days)
Posts: 329
From: Michigan
Joined: 08-18-2006


Message 13 of 36 (402693)
05-29-2007 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Faithful Servant
05-28-2007 9:34 PM


Servant wrote:
There seems to be so much evidence in favor of evolutionism and not so much in the way of rock-hard fact when it comes to creationism, mainly because religion is about faith and not fact.
You and I may think so, but creationists explicitly and repeatedly claim that their creationist claims are exactly that - about fact, and that their creationist claims are shown to be true by evidence, not by wishful thinking. So first, you may wish to talk with those fellow Christians who are creationist if you want to convince them that creationism isn’t about fact. Creationists say that creationism is very much about fact.
But, there is one area that believers (or Christians, to be more accurate) have up their sleeve, . . The heart. The mind. Consciousness.
First, why do you say Christians have that on their side more than, say, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, or Jews? All of those and more have explanations about consciousness, many of them involving a “soul” as much as Christianity. Since they all have explanations, and the evidence doesn’t favor one over the others, why do you favor one over the others?
And no one can explain it. For all of science's "physical" evidence, they can say absolutely nothing of the one thing that makes us who we are, because it has no "physical" properties to speak of. And it's the one thing EVERYBODY belives in. Why can't scientists account for this "unseen" aspect of life that we all know is there? Might it be because it is the ESSENCE of something else? Something greater than our "physical" bodies can detect? No one, it seems, can say. But, there was one who lived, who laid out exactly what this "unseen property" of humanity was, how it came about, and what happens to it in the end. His name was Jesus Christ. His revelation about this aspect of humanity was so great that, no one has been able to touch it since. Sure, many scholars and philosophers waxed poetic about what they "belived", but none of them were as clear and consice as he was.
I’ve read the whole Bible, and the new testament several times, and I don’t think Jesus or the Bible said anything about consciousness that isn’t found in plenty of other sources, and all of it is vague, restatments of the obvious, and adds little to the conversation. You are right, that science hasn’t fully explained consciousness (more on that below), but neither has any of the religions, and certainly not Jesus or Christianity.
Many religions have renamed the problem (by calling it a “soul”), but renaming a problem doesn’t explain how or why a soul is conscious. They’ve also added a bunch of stories about going up or down or back and forth from other worlds or this one, all without any data for support. Even asking the question, as you have started to do in you post, is better than anything in the Bible, which doesn’t even ask how physical matter could be conscious. A fun, short play that addresses that is here:
http://www.atomfilms.com/film/made_meat.jsp (They’re made out of meat)
He spoke with authority about the condition of sin, right and wrong, and the hearts of men, and every single person living can attest to the truths about the inherent evil in the world because of sin, and that little "something" inside us that has a desire to do right.
He may have spoken with authority, and indeed seems to have done a great job communicating the thought of the day, but much of human nature is more completely and sensibly described by evolutionary psychology, which goes beyond simply calling some things “evil” and others “good”. Instead it goes on to show how evolutionary theory predicts, in detail, much of what we take for granted in human nature. Since many people are unfamiliar with it, maybe this would be a good thread to go over it. It’s an interesting and fun area of study.
So, for what might be the first time (at least for me), let's us sit down and talk about this aspect of humanity that, at the very least, all of us belive exists in one form or another.
Though I can only post a limited amount, It sounds fun - let’s discuss the soul or human nature (which I think is more what you are after). Have a great day-
-Equinox

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Faithful Servant, posted 05-28-2007 9:34 PM Faithful Servant has not replied

  
Equinox
Member (Idle past 5142 days)
Posts: 329
From: Michigan
Joined: 08-18-2006


Message 31 of 36 (402884)
05-30-2007 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Faithful Servant
05-30-2007 12:12 AM


Re: More nonsense and irrelevancies.
Since my earlier response (post #13) to Servant went unanswered, and looking at this thread, I'd guess that Servant has plenty to respond to without my invovlement. I think I'll just watch for a while. Plus, maybe that'll give the thread a chance to get back on topic, and stay on topic. It would be easy (and useful) to have a full discussion (in a new thread) on any of the new topics mentioned (such as the lack of reliability of the Bible, or the success of Evolutionary Psychology in describing why people are how they are, or etc...).
Have a fun day all-
Edited by Equinox, : clarification

-Equinox
_ _ _ ___ _ _ _
You know, it's probably already answered at An Index to Creationist Claims...
(Equinox is a Naturalistic Pagan -  Naturalistic Paganism Home)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Faithful Servant, posted 05-30-2007 12:12 AM Faithful Servant has not replied

  
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