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Member (Idle past 5935 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
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Author | Topic: How complex is God? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
sidelined Member (Idle past 5935 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
I wish to inquire of creationists here the above question in order to ascertain if the hypothesis put forth by intelligent design is applicable to the intelligence of God or not. Since it is pointed out to me that creationists tend to assign different rules to God then perhaps we could also hear why the rules happen to conveniently arise when the hypothesis of intelligent design is applied to their God?
We can also point out that creationist argue that complexity can never merely appear without cause so why should God?Intelligent design would be best for this topic. Edited by sidelined, : No reason given.
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AdminPhat Inactive Member |
All thats gonna happen is that you will hear how the rules of evidence for God differ from the rules of evidence for other things. (IOW they will use the proclamation that God is an uncaused first cause)
Which forum do you wish to be in? Intelligent Design? And do you want to polish up the OP a bit first? Let me know.
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sidelined Member (Idle past 5935 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
Is the new Op any better?
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AdminPhat Inactive Member |
Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Hi sidelined,
Since God is all knowledge it would be impossible for finite man to ascertain how complex God is. But I will give you what the Bible says about it.
Isai 55:8 (KJV) For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. I think it would be like trying to explain where the singularity (the one the universe came from) came from but a lot harder. In other words for me to understand or figure Him out I would have to be a bigger God than He is.
We can also point out that creationist argue that complexity can never merely appear without cause so why should God? Exod 3:14 (KJV) And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. The Bible explanation is all I can give. I Am. To me that means He has always been, is now, and will be at anytime that comes to be now.But with a finite human mind it is hard to grasp eternity, or something that is eternal with no beginning or no end. That is the reason I believe by Faith. "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5222 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
Phat,
IOW they will use the proclamation that God is an uncaused first cause And make unholy hypocrites of themselves in the process. Mark There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
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sidelined Member (Idle past 5935 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
ICANT
Since God is all knowledge it would be impossible for finite man to ascertain how complex God is Then it would be safe to say that God is more complex than his creation?If so, then why can we not apply the intelligent design theorem { complexity indicates intelligent design} to god and ask the same question. What created the complexity that is God? But with a finite human mind it is hard to grasp eternity, or something that is eternal with no beginning or no end. I do not think that concept of eternity as grasped by humans is the problem but,rather, the difficulty posed by stating that God had no beginning.If God had no beginning then how can he have progressed through time to reach any future event as this would indicate that time had passed for God which indicates that some moment in the past must be referenced and that,in turn, means that his existence cannot have extended infinitely into the past. " Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention to arrive safely in a pretty and well-preserved body but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow!!What a ride!" ----------------------------------------- What delightful hosts they are-Love and Laughter! Lingeringly I turn away at this late hour,yet glad They have not withheld from me their high hospitality. So at the door I pause to press their hands once more And say,"So fine a time!Thank you both...and goodbye.
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
If God had no beginning then how can he have progressed through time to reach any future event as this would indicate that time had passed for God which indicates that some moment in the past must be referenced and that,in turn, means that his existence cannot have extended infinitely into the past. Trying to make God human is where the problem is. You are saying because you are limited by time God has to be limited by time also. Why do you come to that conclusion?
2Pet 3:8 (KJS) But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. I am sure you have seen this from YECers trying to justify their long days. But all Peter is saying is that God is not limited to time as we are. I am going to stick my neck out here and probably get it chopped off. But I think you are wanting to know why creationist can believe in an eternal God who had no beginning I believe that as far as God is concerned that there is no time only a great big now. In other words as far as God is concerned the universe began (time quanta) 3.3 x 10-44 secago and the world as you and I know it will cease to exist (time quanta) 3.3 x 10-44 sec from now. This is the smallest unit of time we comprehend, but with God it could be a lot shorter time period. Remember the quote from Message 5quote:From the earth to the edge of the universe is a long way. "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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Doddy Member (Idle past 5937 days) Posts: 563 From: Brisbane, Australia Joined: |
ICANT writes: Remember the quote from Re-How complex is God (Message 5) So, if I may paraphrase that piece of scripture. "God is infinitely more complex than you" Seems to answer sidelined's question, right? Contributors needed for the following articles: Pleiotropy, Metabolism, Promoter, Invertebrate, Meiosis, DNA, Transcription, Chromosome, Tetrapod, Fossil, Phenotype, Messenger RNA, Mammals, Appendix , Variation, Selection, Gene, Gametogenesis, Homo erectus and others. Registration not needed, but if desired, register here!
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Hi Doddy,
"God is infinitely more complex than you" God is all knowledge. Does that make Him more complex than I am, I think that would deserve a yes don't you.
sidelined writes: If so, then why can we not apply the intelligent design theorem { complexity indicates intelligent design} to god and ask the same question. What created the complexity that is God? I suppose sidelined, yourself or anyone could attribute anything they want to God. You can try to define Him, You can try to understand Him, You can deny that He exists, You can try to explain Him away. But the fact remains as the quoted passage says, our thoughts can't reach His thoughts. I am not one that has ever said, complexity indicates intelligent design. In fact I believe that a lot of the stuff we see today would be classified as faulty design. But I believe those faulty designs have come about because of the mutations that everyone talks about. I believe in the beginning God created everything perfect. Due to the first man willfully disobeying God we have been devolving every since. "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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Damouse Member (Idle past 4933 days) Posts: 215 From: Brookfield, Wisconsin Joined: |
Hey ICANT.
Have to point out that all your reasoning and proof is a matter of circular reasoning, and as such would not stand up to par in a logical debate. The proof you offer (scripture) and the derivations you make from it are all based on the assumtion that god does exist, and that means that scripture is true, which means that god exists, which means scriptture is true... You see what im saying? neither scenario have any external proof. "God is real because the bible says so, and the bible says so because god wrote it." To the faith, its true. To one who does not begin with the assumption that god is real to begin with, it doesnt really stand. and by your books it was a WOMAN! Dont blame us men for the woman poking around! Lightbulb moment!speaking of which, if god is all intelligent, then he knows all. If he knows all, he knew Humankind would fall to temptation. If he knew humankind would fall to temptation, he must have built us allowing for that, and if anything, built adam and eve FOR that. If he built us allowing for that, and he built us in his image, then is god flawed? oooh i like that train of thought! never thunk down that alley before.... Edited by Damouse, : No reason given. This statement is false.
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2504 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
I believe in the beginning God created everything perfect. Due to the first man willfully disobeying God we have been devolving every since. So a perfect man willfully disobeyed God? Does that mean that if you are striving for perfection in the eyes of God, you should attempt to do the same thing?
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Does that mean that if you are striving for perfection in the eyes of God, you should attempt to do the same thing? I am perfect in the sight of God. All my sins are covered by the blood of Jesus. I am not perfect in the eyes of Jesus that is the one I have to work on every day. "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
and by your books it was a WOMAN! Dont blame us men for the woman poking around! Eve was decieved by Satan. Adam chose to eat the fruit and die with Eve. He did not have to eat the fruit, neither was he tempted to eat the fruit. "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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Damouse Member (Idle past 4933 days) Posts: 215 From: Brookfield, Wisconsin Joined: |
you didnt quote the smilie. this = joke.
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