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Author Topic:   How should one interpret foul language?
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 61 of 87 (403370)
06-02-2007 4:55 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Woodsy
05-31-2007 3:16 PM


English has lots of adjectives and adverbs, so there is no need for foul language when one wants to make a strong point.
What if the strongest point is made using language that you would consider foul?
What do others think about this? Is it proper to object when it happens?
Of course it's not proper. You wouldn't scold your dog for barking at a certain octave. A word is just a sound with meaning. If you dislike the meaning given to a particular sound, then give it your own meaning and move on.
Jon

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 62 of 87 (403411)
06-02-2007 2:15 PM


(expletive deleted)
As with a discussion in another thread, the “who determines . ” has a simple answer: the community. We determine what constitutes “foul” language.
The constant use of such language is seen as a negative. Justified or not, it calls into question the intellectual quality of the user.
In this community, in these forums, the constant use of what this community perceives as “foul” language will get you ignored. Right or wrong, the point you are attempting to convey, no matter how compelling it may seem to you, will be degraded by your language and may indeed be lost.
The communicator has the ultimate responsibility to assure the audience has received the message. Anything that detracts from this effort is an abrogation of your responsibility and is seen as intellectually lacking. The constant or inappropriate use of foul language makes one look stupid. Here at EvC, stupid is not good.
As has been pointed out up-thread, the use of a well placed swear can be a powerful communication. Overuse, however, is detrimental.
And if you cannot except this then go (expletive deleted) yourself.
(Kinda dated myself there, didn’t I)

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by crashfrog, posted 06-02-2007 2:21 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 63 of 87 (403412)
06-02-2007 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by AZPaul3
06-02-2007 2:15 PM


Re: (expletive deleted)
the community. We determine what constitutes “foul” language.
Sure. But we may not be in the same community, and it's inappropriate for you (for instance) to judge me for my language by the standards of your community.
The constant or inappropriate use of foul language makes one look stupid. Here at EvC, stupid is not good.
It's not just dirty words that can make you look stupid. For instance:
quote:
And if you cannot except this then go (expletive deleted) yourself.
It's actually "accept", and it just goes to show that even without profanity there's plenty of ways to use language in ways that don't make you look good.
Edited by crashfrog, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by AZPaul3, posted 06-02-2007 2:15 PM AZPaul3 has replied

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 64 of 87 (403427)
06-02-2007 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by crashfrog
06-02-2007 2:21 PM


Re: (expletive deleted)
It's not just dirty words that can make you look stupid. For instance:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And if you cannot except this then go (expletive deleted) yourself.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's actually "accept", and it just goes to show that even without profanity there's plenty of ways to use language in ways that don't make you look good.
Good catch, Frog. I stand corrected.
the community. We determine what constitutes “foul” language.
Sure. But we may not be in the same community, and it's inappropriate for you (for instance) to judge me for my language by the standards of your community.
By "community" I refer to those with whom you communicate. You are involved with many communities, each with its own standards of conduct vis--vis language.
Here at EvC, for example, we judge people by how well they express themselves in debate. Use of salty vernacular has an impact on how others in this community will view the efficacy of your ideas and will thus gauge your intellect. Inappropriate or not, fair or not, this is the way it is.

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Woodsy
Member (Idle past 3374 days)
Posts: 301
From: Burlington, Canada
Joined: 08-30-2006


Message 65 of 87 (403464)
06-03-2007 7:20 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by New Cat's Eye
06-01-2007 9:54 AM


It depends on context. If someone acts in an obnoxious way in a setting where that is not usual, they should not be surprised if someone else takes notice. In another setting, it might not attract any attention.
Anyone would be surprised at obscenities included in a presentation at a conference; no-one would be surprised to hear them in conversations late at night in a bar.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-01-2007 9:54 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 66 of 87 (403551)
06-03-2007 11:32 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by AZPaul3
06-02-2007 4:22 PM


Re: (expletive deleted)
Here at EvC, for example, we judge people by how well they express themselves in debate. Use of salty vernacular has an impact on how others in this community will view the efficacy of your ideas and will thus gauge your intellect. Inappropriate or not, fair or not, this is the way it is.
actually. here at evc, we tend to judge people on whether they're irrational cunts or educated assholes or some combination of the two. we are at least supposed to judge people based on the sense made in their posts and not the way the sense is expressed in language, font, sparklies, or otherwise.
also, judging intellect by language is like judging goodness by how much someone drinks. how many monkeys does it take to type a cuss-free evc post?

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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 67 of 87 (403595)
06-04-2007 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Woodsy
05-31-2007 3:16 PM


It's about intent.
Foul language is a relative term to me.
Having grown up in the sewers of NYC, I am immune to foul language.
There are times, however, when I realize that my foul language could be upsetting people, so I try to refrain from it.
But when you grow up around people who use this "foul language" all the time to describe things, then it just doesn't matter what words you use, it is how you use them.
There is a big difference between these two statements:
I have a fucking asshole, and
You are a fucking asshole.
I have found over the years, that using these descriptive words around those who do not have a problem with them, is quite enjoyable. There is a sense of freedom involved.
I am however bothered by people who are all "prim and proper" and have problems with these words, yet will do more harmful things to people in their actions, I find them hypocritical.

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subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 68 of 87 (403639)
06-04-2007 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by macaroniandcheese
06-03-2007 11:32 PM


Re: (expletive deleted)
how many monkeys does it take to type a cuss-free evc post?
Fuck if I know.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 69 of 87 (403864)
06-05-2007 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Woodsy
06-03-2007 7:20 AM


It depends on context.
Of course it does.
If someone acts in an obnoxious way in a setting where that is not usual, they should not be surprised if someone else takes notice.
Take all the notice you want. Just don't raise your nose, look down at me, think that your better, and make snide comments about the way I talk.
Especially on a forum that has rules about going off-topic.
In another setting, it might not attract any attention.
You mean, like an anonymous internet forum.
Anyone would be surprised at obscenities included in a presentation at a conference; no-one would be surprised to hear them in conversations late at night in a bar.
So, you find this place to be a setting where fould language is surprising. Ok... Why the need for the snide comment?

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Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by Damouse, posted 06-05-2007 9:28 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Damouse
Member (Idle past 4905 days)
Posts: 215
From: Brookfield, Wisconsin
Joined: 12-18-2005


Message 70 of 87 (403917)
06-05-2007 9:28 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by New Cat's Eye
06-05-2007 2:48 PM


Judging a person by their language is a terrible mistake. "Foul" language is neither the cause or the result of bad charecter, and to judge a person like that and to stereotype them that way is disgusting, not to mention naive.
Swearing depends on the company. You bet i swear in front of my friends of the same age or people im familiar with and know they wont mind, but i hate it when people let that become the norm. Disrespect to those that should really have your respect is a tiddle bit annoying. Parents are a good example. I always loved the little kid (who didnt even swear!) and said "Shut up mom! You dont know anything!"

This statement is false.

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 71 of 87 (403959)
06-06-2007 12:04 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by Damouse
06-05-2007 9:28 PM


Judging a person by their language is a terrible mistake.
That's what I called Woodsy out on.
He said that he thinks that people who use foul language are jerks, IIRC.
He might as well judging people by the color of their skin, IMHO.
and to post an off topic message in that manner! That's just....well, I can't say

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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 72 of 87 (404169)
06-06-2007 10:25 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by New Cat's Eye
06-06-2007 12:04 AM


One has control over how one speaks
Judging a person by their language is a terrible mistake.
That's what I called Woodsy out on.
He said that he thinks that people who use foul language are jerks, IIRC.
He might as well judging people by the color of their skin, IMHO.
You are equating the nature of how someone chooses to speak badly (and this does not require the use of profanity) and the racial origins of this person? Are you joking?
If someone goes out of their way to use language badly (again, this does not require the use of profanity), you shouldn't judge them on their misuse of language? If they're behaving stupid, I'll feel free to make my judgment that they are behaving stupid (aka "being jerks").
Moose

Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith
"Nixon was a professional politician, and I despised everything he stood for ” but if he were running for president this year against the evil Bush-Cheney gang, I would happily vote for him." - Hunter S. Thompson
"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose

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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 73 of 87 (455135)
02-10-2008 8:43 PM


Buzsaw Interpretation Of Foul Language
Here's how I interpret foul language. I tend to be a literalist in about everything. As most know here, I'm a Biblical literalist, for example.
Now, since I interpret foul (out of bounds) language (speech) literally, shit = feces expelled waste from living things above plants. It is the foul stinky, putrid, unpleasant matter which is to be avoided, burried and disposed of, not to be around in living rooms, auditoriums or in the public fora such as on the www.
Then too, being a literalist, I see no reason for the subject of feces to be interspersed into board discussions and living room conversation etc.
Then there's fuck. Think about it: What has the subject of private bedroom intercourse have to do with conversations about mechanics, science, food, nutrition, and a host of other topics folks discuss?
People who use these terms should stop and think what they are saying and learn to focus on the topic of discussion without introducing these off topic terms profane to the discussion.
I see the use of profanity as a sign of moral, mental, cultural, and communal depravity. The more it prevails, the more it depraves and corrupts.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by Quetzal, posted 02-10-2008 9:04 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 76 by Trixie, posted 02-11-2008 7:11 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5872 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 74 of 87 (455138)
02-10-2008 9:04 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by Buzsaw
02-10-2008 8:43 PM


Re: Buzsaw Interpretation Of Foul Language
shit = feces expelled waste from living things above plants. It is the foul stinky, putrid, unpleasant matter which is to be avoided, burried and disposed of, not to be around in living rooms, auditoriums or in the public fora such as on the www.
Then too, being a literalist, I see no reason for the subject of feces to be interspersed into board discussions and living room conversation etc.
I suppose it depends on what you're used to. Eschatological idoms are common throughout all languages. Whereas I don't particularly use them very often, they are quite succinct expressions used to quickly indicate a person's feelings and mood with little ambiguity. Although I grew up in a household where such language was considered unacceptable, my military service rapidly (in fact, the first day) cured me of any squeamishness.
As to the particular noun/verb you mention, I'm afraid that discussion of feces is an integral part of my job description. I spend much time closely examining scat, for instance, and spooning fresh cow manure into beer cups to use as bait. In other words, I work with shit every day, so I'm perhaps a bit less concerned than you apparently are about the "unpleasant matter that is to be disposed of". In fact, I and my colleagues often have dining room conversations on the subject.
All in all, I think you are being a bit harsh, here.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by Buzsaw, posted 02-11-2008 12:19 AM Quetzal has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 75 of 87 (455165)
02-11-2008 12:19 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by Quetzal
02-10-2008 9:04 PM


Re: Buzsaw Interpretation Of Foul Language
Hi Quetzal. Well, like you if I ever said the word before I left home I'd be in for it.
My first job was on a geophysical oil exploration crew in Wyoming among a rough talking crew where I lived in the bunk trailers with them. They were mostly all rough talkers. Then I spent the next four years in the Air Force.
On occasion, both on the crew and in the AF I would ask my friends something like what has sexual intercourse got to do with this conversation?.
I always had respect from my peers who understood me and on rare occasions when I said something I did so in a good spirited manner. I never saw any more sense or need to lower my language to the gutter as a youth on my own than I do now.
The problem is the herd mentality where folks let their peers determine their conduct and speech. They don't think about how senseless and off topic most profanity really is. Are the languages of the world so void of words that people think they need to resort to the profane and off topic to communicate.
Another reason many Biblicalist Christians don't use profanity is that the book in both testaments says a lot about how we talk, instructing against the profane as well as referring to God or Christ vainly.
Having said the above I have many friends and acquantances who use profanity. Most are decent folks. The ones who use less profanity tend to be the nicer folks. On the other hand on occasion it's been nice talking folks who've been dishonest.
I don't say anything about profanity to my friends who use except on rare occasions when it might be appropriate and we get along fine.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Quetzal, posted 02-10-2008 9:04 PM Quetzal has replied

Replies to this message:
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