Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,742 Year: 3,999/9,624 Month: 870/974 Week: 197/286 Day: 4/109 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   How complex is God?
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 5 of 59 (403518)
06-03-2007 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by sidelined
06-03-2007 10:15 AM


Re-How complex is God
Hi sidelined,
Since God is all knowledge it would be impossible for finite man to ascertain how complex God is. But I will give you what the Bible says about it.
Isai 55:8 (KJV) For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
I think it would be like trying to explain where the singularity (the one the universe came from) came from but a lot harder.
In other words for me to understand or figure Him out I would have to be a bigger God than He is.
We can also point out that creationist argue that complexity can never merely appear without cause so why should God?
Exod 3:14 (KJV) And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
The Bible explanation is all I can give. I Am. To me that means He has always been, is now, and will be at anytime that comes to be now.
But with a finite human mind it is hard to grasp eternity, or something that is eternal with no beginning or no end.
That is the reason I believe by Faith.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by sidelined, posted 06-03-2007 10:15 AM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by sidelined, posted 06-03-2007 10:54 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 8 of 59 (403559)
06-04-2007 12:32 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by sidelined
06-03-2007 10:54 PM


Re: Re-How complex is God
If God had no beginning then how can he have progressed through time to reach any future event as this would indicate that time had passed for God which indicates that some moment in the past must be referenced and that,in turn, means that his existence cannot have extended infinitely into the past.
Trying to make God human is where the problem is.
You are saying because you are limited by time God has to be limited by time also.
Why do you come to that conclusion?
2Pet 3:8 (KJS) But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
I am sure you have seen this from YECers trying to justify their long days. But all Peter is saying is that God is not limited to time as we are.
I am going to stick my neck out here and probably get it chopped off. But I think you are wanting to know why creationist can believe in an eternal God who had no beginning
I believe that as far as God is concerned that there is no time only a great big now. In other words as far as God is concerned the universe began (time quanta) 3.3 x 10-44 sec
ago and the world as you and I know it will cease to exist (time quanta) 3.3 x 10-44 sec
from now. This is the smallest unit of time we comprehend, but with God it could be a lot shorter time period.
Remember the quote from Message 5
quote:
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
From the earth to the edge of the universe is a long way.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by sidelined, posted 06-03-2007 10:54 PM sidelined has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Doddy, posted 06-04-2007 3:49 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 41 by jaywill, posted 07-19-2007 6:26 AM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 10 of 59 (403572)
06-04-2007 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Doddy
06-04-2007 3:49 AM


Re: Re-How complex is God
Hi Doddy,
"God is infinitely more complex than you"
God is all knowledge. Does that make Him more complex than I am, I think that would deserve a yes don't you.
sidelined writes:
If so, then why can we not apply the intelligent design theorem { complexity indicates intelligent design} to god and ask the same question. What created the complexity that is God?
I suppose sidelined, yourself or anyone could attribute anything they want to God. You can try to define Him, You can try to understand Him, You can deny that He exists, You can try to explain Him away. But the fact remains as the quoted passage says, our thoughts can't reach His thoughts.
I am not one that has ever said, complexity indicates intelligent design. In fact I believe that a lot of the stuff we see today would be classified as faulty design.
But I believe those faulty designs have come about because of the mutations that everyone talks about.
I believe in the beginning God created everything perfect. Due to the first man willfully disobeying God we have been devolving every since.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Doddy, posted 06-04-2007 3:49 AM Doddy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Damouse, posted 06-05-2007 8:07 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 12 by bluegenes, posted 06-05-2007 8:46 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 13 of 59 (403914)
06-05-2007 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by bluegenes
06-05-2007 8:46 PM


Re: Re-How complex is God
Does that mean that if you are striving for perfection in the eyes of God, you should attempt to do the same thing?
I am perfect in the sight of God. All my sins are covered by the blood of Jesus.
I am not perfect in the eyes of Jesus that is the one I have to work on every day.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by bluegenes, posted 06-05-2007 8:46 PM bluegenes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Parasomnium, posted 07-19-2007 7:45 AM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 14 of 59 (403915)
06-05-2007 9:15 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Damouse
06-05-2007 8:07 PM


Re: Re-How complex is God
and by your books it was a WOMAN! Dont blame us men for the woman poking around!
Eve was decieved by Satan. Adam chose to eat the fruit and die with Eve. He did not have to eat the fruit, neither was he tempted to eat the fruit.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Damouse, posted 06-05-2007 8:07 PM Damouse has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Damouse, posted 06-05-2007 9:41 PM ICANT has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024