The evolution of religion?

Good ol' Skinner, the behavioral psychologist that placed his own kids in glass boxes, of Walden II utopia notoriety, and who trained pigeons to guide missiles to their targets (from inside) for the US army (the first "smart bombs"?). I would say the pigeons were trained to repeat motions they had been doing (randomly) between the hopper feedings.

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Some similar previous threads:http://< !--UB EvC Forum: Evolutionary Origin of Religious Belief -->http://EvC Forum: Evolutionary Origin of Religious Belief -->EvC Forum: Evolutionary Origin of Religious Belief< !--UE-->
http://< !--UB EvC Forum: What is the evolutionary advantage to religion? -->http://EvC Forum: What is the evolutionary advantage to religion? -->EvC Forum: What is the evolutionary advantage to religion?< !--UE--> And no two original beliefs are the same. On the other hand the ascetic "religious experience" is fairly universal. Thus if god(s) are true, then they are unknowable (deism), OR there are no god(s). We may be asking this question the wrong way. Religious belief could also be a side product of some other evolved behavior. In Message 105 I posted some thoughts in a different direction: Thus the drive to form a religion is based on instinctual behavior for group social species and (evolved or learned) codes of behavior, similar to many animal species we know. Thus you would haveLeader Person (A) has religious experience
Group (A) (with Person (A)) forms a religion around the experienceSuccessful formulations increase group bond and inter-individual behavior to the benefit of the group. The religions evolve over time to add elements not in the original vision, by leaders, for group control.Group (A) divides or mingle with non-religion group and form new groups with common basis allowing inter-group behavior to the benefit of the groups involved.Thus you end up with evolved religion, but the question of god(s) unresolved. I would say "with the establishment of rational thinking that religion ... etc". I think (personal opinion) that formal religions are no longer needed, and that they interfere with real spiritual growth or possibilities, because they are hindered by the dogma based on those added crowd control elements.{ABE}There is also some medical evidence that a spiritual attitude, independent of any specific religion, is beneficial to the overall health of the individual, and this would select for individuals that had spiritual\religious experiences.{/abe}Enjoy.Edited by RAZD, : added

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Not to squabble, but I think there is at least one good use ... Edited by RAZD, : No reason given.

Meditation, study of a wide variety of spiritual texts (expose self to different views), setting time aside for personal introspection. It is a personal journey, and no-one can tell you what your path is. Getting rid of dogma (walls) lets those paths go where they will.Enjoy.

Another thing to consider in formalized religion is cult indoctrination techniques. Remember once the initial formulation of the religion has passed the dogma\tradition\ceremonial aspects of the religion are about crowd control by those who want to remain leaders.Cult Recruitment | HowStuffWorks

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A destructive cult uses countless techniques to get its members to stay, commit themselves and take part in what may be harmful activities. The sum of these techniques constitutes what some people call "mind control." It's also known as "thought reform," "brainwashing" and "coercive persuasion," and it involves the systematic breakdown of a person's sense of self.

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http://www.ex-cult.org/fwbo/fwbosection2.htm

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A cult is: an organisation which systematically uses brainwashing or mind control processes to change the way its individual members think, in order to subvert their free will and restrict their independent judgement . The aim is to undermine members' own self reliance, so that they gradually come to place more trust in the insights of the group leadership than in their own judgement. A cult is not necessarily harmful in this definition.

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Note that these same techniques are used during soldier indoctrination (called boot camp), even in the US forces (explains a lot about the attitudes of soldiers to command leadership). The GOP party? DNC?This also plays to the same instinctual/evolved social group behavior patterns, so many people are easy subjects for such indoctrinations.Enjoy.

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Looked in the mirror of late? .

I was thinking more of the dismissal of evidence out of hand. I have trouble with this. Even though the experiences cannot be replicated on demand does not mean that they do not occur, nor does it mean that there is no connection, no matter how poorly understood the experience is (even by the observer). There are valid conclusions that are not provable nor falsifiable, and those conclusions cannot be dismissed out of hand as not being correct:Delusion works both ways: We could rid the world of all religions and faiths and these experiences would still occur.The question is what they mean.Enjoy.

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You might be interested in the link drawn in this article
Political and Social Science
between schizophrenia and religion

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The engine by which mystical ideation becomes cultural doctrine includes three primary components: insanity, evil, and feebleness of mind. The insanity is embodied principally by schizophrenics, though also by individuals with certain other types of brain disease. The evil is embodied by the power lusting second hander. The feebleness of mind is embodied by ordinary people, of ordinary mental fortitude and ordinary susceptibility to memetic infection. By mental fortitude, I mean capacity to maintain rational consistency, particularly when presented with a concerted effort to befuddle.

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The ancients also had lots of stories of seers ... usually holed up and being kept.There is also this article
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In the new field of "neurotheology," scientists seek the
biological basis of spirituality. Is God all in our heads?

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Which leads to the interesting question of whether there is a "religion gene" .... and what to do about it (versus, say, a "homosexual gene" ... )Enjoy.

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There is also the issue of the "God-Helmet"
Holy visions

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He built a Transcranial Magnetic Stimulator, starting with a yellow motorcycle helmet, and outfitted it with build-in electrical coils that can create electromagnetic fields in the wearer's temporal lobes. These are the part of the brain which are linked to religious belief, "time distortions, dream states and assorted odd physic phenomena." 5 During an experiment, the subject sits in a quiet, dimly lit, room. Soothing music is played in the background. A "gently flickering strobe light" is provided. The subject's brain wave patterns are monitored by an EEG instrument.

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By 2002, he had performed the experiment on over 1,000 volunteers. 80% had some sort of supernatural experience ...

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What "sort" is not discussed. And the rules of statistics would say that given sufficient opportunity that this would occur. Of course it is more likely to occur in ignorant\gullible populations versus educated\skeptical ones.Enjoy.

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Would this not be evidence of some form of treatment of the dead? Ritual is ritual, and there is evidence of cremation also being used by those that built stonehenge as part of their rituals.The only thing that would not be ritualistic would be leaving the body where it died, untouched.It doesn't have to deal with belief in gods, it can be spirits, especially of the dead or of ancestors (as occurs in many societies).Enjoy.

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I remember seeing a video of a chimp mom where the baby died, and she carried the dead body around for days afterwards. Obviously in mourning and denial. Being able to have a ceremony to bring peace may have positive benefits for the whole group.

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