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Author Topic:   The evolution of religion?
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 11 of 69 (404045)
06-06-2007 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by ogon
06-05-2007 5:24 PM


Is religion then judged to be part of mans evolution? If mankind evolved in ways that guaranteed his survival, hunting, gathering, reproducing, what role did the belief in the supernatural and subsequently religion play in this evolution?
Possibly none. Just because we see religion all over the place doesn't mean that religion provides some adaptive benefit to humans. Tapeworms are adapted to live in our intestines, but provide absolutely no benefit to us for being there.
Religion could be a similar parasite.

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 Message 1 by ogon, posted 06-05-2007 5:24 PM ogon has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 21 of 69 (404263)
06-07-2007 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by petrophysics1
06-07-2007 4:47 PM


Re: Religion results from experience
Disembodied spiritual beings are today and have been in the past seen by all cultures.
Disembodied spiritual beings have never been seen at any time by anyone; indeed, it would be impossible, because a immaterial being would not be able to reflect, absorb, or obstruct visible light. Thus they would be unable to be seen by the human eye.
Also people see them, so they must be explained.
People say they've seen them. That's a completely different phenomenon - why people claim to have seen ghosts - with completely reasonable, material explanations that have absolutely nothing to do with the impossible act of seeing impossible beings.
If children do this today they did it in the past.
If it's possible, then nearly everybody should be remembering past lives. But the vast majority of people do not, which suggests that "past life memories" are really nothing more than confabulations. In nearly every known case, it's possible to prove that the subject would have contemporary knowedge of the culture and circumstances of the life they claim to be remembering, so there's really nothing to support the contention of past life memories. It's a tissue of supposition that falls apart at the slightest skeptical inquiry.
Anyone who was alive during the "Satanic ritual abuse/recovered memories" scandals should be highly skeptical of fantastic accounts of past lives lived. Indeed, the human imagination is a very powerful tool. Every human being has the ability to remember things that never happened - could never happen - at will.
We would expect birthmarks etc. to match to real wounds simply by coincidence, particularly if the past life account is sufficiently generic to match a large number of people. And the sheer number of people at any one time who all claim to have lived the same past life - Napoleon, Ceasar, Cleopatra - suggests very strongly that the whole enterprise is subject to a very large amount of wishful thinking.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by petrophysics1, posted 06-07-2007 4:47 PM petrophysics1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by petrophysics1, posted 06-07-2007 5:17 PM crashfrog has replied
 Message 29 by Doddy, posted 06-08-2007 1:36 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 24 of 69 (404267)
06-07-2007 5:24 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by petrophysics1
06-07-2007 5:17 PM


Re: Religion results from experience
Didn't read any of the U of Va. research did you?
Actually, I read a lot of it. But I also read rebuttals. You know, both sides. What do you have to say to the objection that many of the U of Va's subjects are from cultures where reincarnation is not only part of the local belief system, but making a credible claim of being a reborn member of another family carries financial benefits that family is obligated to pay? That would make it highly likely that a very large number of these children have been coached with the intent of financial gain by the parents.
I'll bet you can't even remember being born or before you were 3 1/2 or 4 years old.
As a matter of fact, I can clearly remember the birth of my sister in great detail - seeing my mom in the hospital bed, my newborn sister in the natal ward - which happened when I was 2.
But, go ahead and make whatever nonsense assumptions it takes to make you feel better about your personal brand of woo. Go ahead and make whatever personal attacks it takes to dismiss the skeptics out of hand.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by petrophysics1, posted 06-07-2007 5:17 PM petrophysics1 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by RAZD, posted 06-07-2007 5:50 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 26 of 69 (404276)
06-07-2007 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by RAZD
06-07-2007 5:50 PM


Re: Religion results from experience
Looked in the mirror of late?
Just this morning.
I don't know where people get this idea that I'm making all these personal attacks. Look, if you have stupid ideas, I'm going to call them stupid and show you why that's true.
I don't call you stupid. God knows even bright people have the occasional idiot idea. We can't all be geniuses all the time.
I almost never make personal attacks. In moments of weakness, or in response to extensive provocation - for some reason, people almost immediately resort to personal attacks when they're arguing with me - I've been known to name-call. And I get suspended for it nearly every time. (You'd think I'd learn.) But the idea that I'm somehow some kind of insult factory, smearing all around me with a triade of personal abuse, is just false. Tirades of personal abuse are what get directed at me, with no provocation except I don't just roll over and swallow bullshit claims. Apparently that's enough for people.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by RAZD, posted 06-07-2007 5:50 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by RAZD, posted 06-07-2007 6:34 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 28 of 69 (404284)
06-07-2007 7:11 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by RAZD
06-07-2007 6:34 PM


Re: Religion results from experience
I was thinking more of the dismissal of evidence out of hand.
I'm not dismissing his evidence. People do say they've seen ghosts.
The idea that "ghosts are real" is not a good explanation for why people claim to see ghosts. There are a hundred better explanations, most of them situational, but most also generalizable to "people have wild imaginations."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by RAZD, posted 06-07-2007 6:34 PM RAZD has not replied

  
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