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Author Topic:   The evolution of religion?
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 311 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 3 of 69 (403996)
06-06-2007 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by ogon
06-05-2007 5:24 PM


Make Of This What You Will
"A pigeon is brought to a stable state of hunger by reducing it to 75 percent of its weight when well fed. It is put into an experimental cage for a few minutes each day. A food hopper attached to the cage may be swung into place so that the pigeon can eat from it. A solenoid and a timing relay hold the hopper in place for five sec. at each reinforcement.
If a clock is now arranged to present the food hopper at regular intervals with no reference whatsoever to the bird's behavior, operant conditioning usually takes place. In six out of eight cases the resulting responses were so clearly defined that two observers could agree perfectly in counting instances. One bird was conditioned to turn counter-clockwise about the cage, making two or three turns between reinforcements. Another repeatedly thrust its head into one of the upper corners of the cage. A third developed a 'tossing' response, as if placing its head beneath an invisible bar and lifting it repeatedly. Two birds developed a pendulum motion of the head and body, in which the head was extended forward and swung from right to left with a sharp movement followed by a somewhat slower return. The body generally followed the movement and a few steps might be taken when it was extensive. Another bird was conditioned to make incomplete pecking or brushing movements directed toward but not touching the floor. None of these responses appeared in any noticeable strength during adaptation to the cage or until the food hopper was periodically presented. In the remaining two cases, conditioned responses were not clearly marked."
--- B. F. Skinner, 'Superstition' in the Pigeon (emphasis in the original)
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by ogon, posted 06-05-2007 5:24 PM ogon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by RAZD, posted 06-06-2007 10:20 AM Dr Adequate has replied
 Message 12 by ogon, posted 06-06-2007 3:19 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 311 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 5 of 69 (404015)
06-06-2007 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by RAZD
06-06-2007 10:20 AM


Re: Make Of This What You Will
Good ol' Skinner, the behavioral psychologist that placed his own kids in glass boxes, of Walden II utopia notoriety, and who trained pigeons to guide missiles to their targets (from inside) for the US army (the first "smart bombs"?).
C'mon, you've got to admire the man who invented the pigeon-guided missile.
I would say the pigeons were trained to repeat motions they had been doing (randomly) between the hopper feedings.
So does he. Do you keep your kids in glass boxes, or some more conventional style of playpen?
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 311 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 15 of 69 (404106)
06-06-2007 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by ogon
06-06-2007 3:19 PM


Re: Make Of This What You Will
I have to admit it Doc, I just don't get this one?
The point is that when the pigeons were placed in a situation where their actions could not affect their environment, they adopted a set of entirely pointless rituals which they thought (insofar as a pigeon can be said to think, Skinner would turn in his grave) did effect their environment.
We might compare this to such things as prayers for rain, sun dances, intercessionary prayers for the sick, and so forth (if these things do in fact serve no function).
You may reply that humans are not as dumb as pigeons, and of course I agree, but we are just about as intuitively poor at knowing when there is and when there isn't evidence of a causal correlation when presented with statistical data.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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