Why It Is Right To Do Good To Others

To Jon and Stiles, I've enjoyed your debate. It's great to see minds at work. still on the topic of being good and passing on the good vibes, I can tell you that you cannot predict your effect on others. Being good can rub some people up and you wouldn't know. Keep your own council and keep your own best interests at heart. You can't go wrong. Regards dameeva

Oh dear, who says you aren't good enough? Who is doing the judging here?
I really believe the motivation to which you refer, is everything.
But 'bettering' yourself as a motive?
You are already 'better'. You break my heart when you refer to yourself as 'less than'. Not much of a foundation to build your life upon.
On the other hand if someone (from the goodness of their heart) merely suggested that I could 'better' myself, I would not be a happy chappy and neither would they, believe me.
Trying to be good and trying to do good is telling yourself and others, you are not good enough and they are not good enough. It's just not good enough! ha ha

The judgement of good or bad human behaviour will always promote new arguments. Just for one moment, step back from the issues and have a look at the consequences of the judgements. Wars!
So what is the motivation for this judgement of being good and bad? Just focussing on the motive, we cannot know. We have to look to who benefits and what is the consequence? The consequence is we are not in control. We are fighting amongst ourselves whilst those who can abuse power have the opportunity to do so. We present the opportunity to them on a silver platter.
Pull back, now. Look at history. How have the masses been kept under control? Look at the way we have judged each other on the ground level. Time and again 'divide and conquer' has worked and is still working.
We're better than you. You are better than them. They are not as good as me. I am not as good as you. Excellent tools of control if that be your motive.
Is it possible this notion of good and bad is merely a tool to control the masses?

The point of good and being good and doing good must mean that bad exists or potentially exists. For one to be merciful there must be one who needs mercy. For one to be good there needs to be at least awareness of bad. Whilst goodness exists badness exists.
They are both judgements based on conformity and control. It matters not that judgment, control and conformity may be deemed as essential as it does not change the effect. Goodness can and does promote evil. The Jesus story shows us this. I use this merely to illustrate human behaviour. As the story goes, his goodness created enemies who did not understand him. His turning the other cheek gave rise to it being slapped again. His goodness promoted fear, greed, betrayal and eventually his murder.
The point is that the negative effects of goodness are usually ignored, or dismissed because it doesn't suit the argument. Again using the Jesus story, this demonstrates the extremes of goodness and badness. It illustrates the WHOLE picture.
If one is to maintain being 'good' then one has to be 'good' at all times, even with one's enemies. One cannot be the judge of who deserves one's 'goodness.' That judgement alone negates one's goodness, and furthermore, that judgement can create badness.
Some of those who are judged as undeserving do not appreciate being judged in this way and will react accordingly.
Whilst the notion of goodness seems a noble one, the judgements surrounding it are very dubious. Only those with similar life experiences will agree and so the judgement of goodness will always promote division, which is the opposite.
Edited by dameeva, : No reason given.

How can one know if one is doing good or being good if one does not know what good is? How can one know if one is doing bad or being bad if one does not know what bad is?
I think we agree that pleasureable feelings are the result of good and uncomfortable feelings deriving from bad. This works fine if the intentions and motive are known.
When neither intention or motive to be good are present, as in this forum, is there evidence of being good or bad?
Reading through the posts on the subject of 'if it is right to do good,' I find an a glaring absence of understanding, patience, kindness, acceptance and motive to do good.
Is it a case of put your money where your mouth is here?

Thankyou for your reply. I think I may not explain myself very well and throw in some one-liners to spark an idea but it doesn't work. I apologise. I also realized that I do veer off the issue you wish to discuss, as do we all, and the issues just keep piling up. Congratulaions on pulling back to the original issue of 'why is it right to do good'. I hope I have it right this time.
I have studied your observations and I am also not sure what it is you are trying to say. I haven't from the beginning. It is no different to asking 'is it wrong to do bad'. You would think the simple answers would be 'yes' to good and 'no' to bad. Why the need to ask? To be honest I think the issue is a stupid one and on this level of discussion will remain one.
Until the judgement of good and bad is agreed upon by all parties, it is a pointless exercise.

Motivation has everything to do with our actions. Not one action is taken without a motive. You may not be aware of your motive but it is there. At a deep level, I don't believe we do anything for anyone else. Every action is a statement of who we are in one form or another.
Morals are just a way of control, even if it is for the greater good. Morals bypass our motivation and emotions. In fact, moral codes create just as much anger, frustration {read all the posts) and confusion.
We don't need moral codes to tell us if we are hurting someone or if we are being hurt. The real problem of those who do not 'do good' and cause harm is because they don't know they are doing it. They don't see it. They fully justify their actions. It doesn't seem 'wrong' to them. Now that is worth a debate.

Hey Stile, you obviously have a busy mind that perhaps tries to deal with too many ideas at the same time. I can't keep up with you ha ha.
With regard to you doing things for others, yes, but ultimately it's because you see yourself as a good person. Motive! You have a choice whether or not to do good things and your motive dictates your choice. Motive isn't even thought about, never mind being secondary, but it is there.

thanks for hearing me.

cont... have I tried to do good and ended up doing bad? Oh yes! I have experienced the folly of 'being good' most of my life, and ended up pissing people off. I thought I was helping but I was inferring inequality. On the other hand, when one is 'good', others can turn into animals and try to pull you down. You may have heard the 'Jesus' stories? If you fight back, you become an animal, if you don't they will kill you.
I have put it in strong terms only to make a point. The point is being good to others can be a dangerous activity and the outcome has only a fifty fifty chance of being positive.

Reading between the lines (so to speak) the overall picture I get is one of 'us' and 'them'. The question of, 'is it right to do good to others'? is a devisive question.It infers that if you do not know what good is, then you could be bad. It infers that if you are good, then someone else is judged to be not as good or bad. Some are judged to be evil, the extreme of good. How do we know if someone is evil?Killing is considered evil BUT there are huge exceptions in everyones' mind, even yours and mine. Where do we draw the line? Is one life more valuable than another? Who decides this? Those with 'best judgement'? How can we trust them?I do believe many people want guidelines and rules and codes of conduct but who makes them? More importantly, do they work? Do they reach their final objective? I would say NO, because we look for solutions in the same places. Who is the goody and who is the baddy? Who should die?Until we change our attitude towards the good and bad elements then history will go right on repeating itself.

An objective view of what 'is' without the judgement of good and bad would do the trick. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder as is the perception of good and bad. Remove one and the other disappears.
No one truly believes themselves to be bad but many believe themselves to be good. To know oneself as good, there must be a camparison. This belief itself is a declaration of "I am better than" which is not good. So yes, Stile, being good and doing good creates bad, no matter the intention.
It's a simple concept but difficult to get ones head around in todays society of punishment and reward, but that's another subject.
No one can be good all the time so when one is not being good, is one being bad? Hopefully, one is just being oneself so why change?

Cause, effect and consequence is a natural process of a universal law. This works throughout every action we take. When making these decisions of doing 'good' for self or others, there is always the whole picture to consider. Motive, intention and expected outcome. We can never be certain of the outcome when it involves others but for self the outcome can be fairly accurately predicted.
Moral codes interfere with our innate humaness. They bring in judgement and comparison and competetion, completely negating equality of human beings. If we need a moral code, then it should be this and nothing more. We are all equal, of equal vlaue and belong to one human race. No more are required.
The point I am making (through personal experience) is: the notion of good versus bad is a cause that has the effect of a devisive consequence.

Stile, are you not good enough as you are? Why do you need to 'learn' to become a 'better' person? (I like you). We do learn and maybe we become 'better' but from natural progression throughout our life experiences.Trying to be good will remain trying to be good, the emphasis on trying. No one can try to be good ALL the time. It begs the same question of 'when you are not trying to be good, are you being bad? What a waste of energy and talent that would be.You say the motive for being good is to live in harmony and as I have previously pointed out, the devisive nature of good and bad is actually the cause. It has not worked throughout history. Harmony maybe the objective but the method stinks.Whose judgement is it that we are not perfect? I believe we are all perfect with the power to re-create ourselves into who we want to be, opposed to being who others think we should be. The confusion you speak of is already there but it is not from being ourselves, but from becoming who we think we should be to satisfy all the rules laid down by society and family. These rules only work for those who wish to follow them. They don't allow for diversity, freedom and growth because the value of a person is defined in terms of good or bad. The confusion is rife!

Hey Stiles, you just don't get it. You move the goalpost every time I kick the ball! You take each sentence out of context and dissect the hell out of it. It seems your inquizitive mind won't allow an objective view. I try to keep things simple and every point I make supports the point of 'judgement of good and bad is devisive and can cause wars'.
You say you would gladly embrace an alternative to bring harmony but actually perpetuate this state of division. You judge and name some humans as silver tongued evil doers, others as evil people. Is this loving thy neighbour? Is this trying to be good? Does this make you better than them?
This view of good v. bad is held by the majority of the human race but there is a growing minority who believe otherwise. There will be no global peace and harmony until we understand that we are each a product of our life experiences without exception. The truth is that given anyones life experience we would be and do exactly the same as them. You see we are all the same. There is no us and them, only us.
The alternative I am proposing is, 'judgement of good and bad needs to shift to judgement of how and why'? Too simple?