Please - Some Impartial Advice Needed

Like there aren't gay guys working in the oilfield.....Perhaps not as many, and not near as many that are "out," as in the hotel business, but they are there. RAZD has a point, though, that violent homophobia might be a significant worry among us oil fiel' trash types. You don't say what your dad does, but your typical roustabout gang has some pretty damn serious rednecks/cholos.The money ought to be good now, if that's any consolation.

It would depend on where in Oklahoma Taylor is living; people in much of the state are amazingly intolerant. It sounds like Taylor has enough to on his plate in dealing with his parents. I don't see it as necessary that he bring the rest of his community down on him.Fortunately for Taylor he can observe the response of acquaintances to his friend's revelation, then make a judgment as to whether he is prepared to out himself.

Ya know, everybody has an opinion and everyone on the site seems be saying, “do your thing”, but suppose your mother isn’t wrong. Having sex seems real important at this time in your life, that is what we are talking about right? It was for me. You won’t have to learn to like girls when the right one comes along it will be automatic. I’m not to familiar with homosexuality and don’t have those desires. But everyone has desires that they themselves considers wrong.Is homosexual desires some form of progressive evolution blazing a different path by chance. Or is it the demonic lie your mother is telling you it is. If she’s right and the bible is inspired by your creator who wants the best for you, then you are heading down a self destructive path. The bible will tell you about yourself, it provides life instruction and the teaching of wisdom, something rarely found in the secular world. If the bible is the how to fix it book people claim it is , then the repair instruction should be inside. Stepping over that line is a lot easier than stepping back, you’ve got a little time read the bible for yourself don’t believe any body about it’s content. Most people who say it doesn’t add up have never read it.On the other hand if you’re the descendent of a real old mutated monkey and your here by chance from nothing for no reason, then what does it matter.

Some "Christians" are remarkable in their hypocrisy...I told my two best friends several days before I told my mom. (They are both active in the church.) They were shocked, and quickly told my youth minister. When I walked into church this morning, one of my friends wouldn't even look at me. I quickly learned (from my other friend) that my youth minister has been telling them to stay away from me and my dangerous ideas.Tonight, after church, my youth minister invited everybody out to dinner - except me. This is ironic for a Christian; I can't help but think of the meeting between Zacchaeus and Jesus...I was very disturbed, and I told my mother about this. We had a huge fight. She says I'm dragging her and the family down, and that she'll have to resign her post as a Sunday School teacher. She is furious that I told anybody, and she calls me incredibly "selfish". In the meantime, she continues to insist that I'm not gay.Of course, I didn't mean to hurt my family; I was stupid to think they would be immune to criticism. I told my friends - and some other people - because I felt ready; but perhaps I was selfish to sacrifice my parents' reputation. Honestly, I didn't think my parents would have to be particularly ashamed; they are not the only parents in church that have a wayward son (though of course I know I'm not really wayward.)I know my mom can come across as a heartless bigot - indeed, she does have tendencies to be a bigot - but in reality she's scared for my life, my happiness, and my safety. It's going to be a long, hard road ahead for our family, but I have little doubt that we'll eventually settle down and accept each other again someday.

I'm certainly not going to flaunt my sexuality - simply because that's not who I am. I won't wear a rainbow-colored shirt that says "I'm gay!", and tell every person in the street about my preferences and fetishes.However, I will be open about it; if I want to talk about my boyfriend, then I will without fear; if somebody asks me about my orientation, I will tell them (except in special circumstances). Crashfrog already pointed this out; straight people do "out" themselves everyday; a gay person who's out can be expected to do the same.

I have a personal question.Why did you try to be a homosexual? It can be a pretty crappy life at times, so I don't see why someone would put themselves through it unnecessarily. I'm sure there's a good reason, but I can't clearly see it.

I'm sorry you had such a crappy day. Learning who your real friends are is a hard lesson, but a necessary one. It is your parents who are being selfish here. They are willing to hurt and criticize you and would probably encourage you to live a lie in order to save face in their community? They should be defending you instead of worrying about what other people think about them.Reminds me of the movie "The General's Daughter."Of course, they may come to a point where they do defend you and I hope they do. I am just trying to help you see that the reactions of these people, including your parents, are NOT your fault. I know you do not want to see your mother in pain, but the pain is of her own making and hopefully someday the only pain she will have is being hurt for you when other people make hateful comments.

Dawkins, in "The God Delusion", writes of the evils of religion.You pop in here to give him more ammunition.I notice below we see further examples from Taylor's immediate experience.There is evil afoot in this world. It feeds on your heart and those like you. There is no wisdom in you and if you are an example of what arises from your book there can't be much there.

Well, I'd tell them to go fuck themselves, but that's just me.Honestly? You may have to get used to the idea of not being able to depend on your parents for support. If your plan was to go to college and have them pay for it, or part of it, I'd be making plans for how you can go to college without any input from them.If they're at the point where they think they can "meddle" you into not being gay anymore, and they have no problem isolating you from your friends, then there's nothing they won't be prepared to try to take from you.Talk to your high school guidance counselor. See what they know about financial aid for people who are no longer their parent's dependents (if they cut you off, you're your own dependent, and you shouldn't let them claim you as a dependent child anymore.)Sometimes a little show of independence goes a long way. When I was a teenager, my parents always gave me a hard time about staying out late with my friends. The first Christmas I was home from college, I came back one night at like 2 in the morning from my buddy's house. I found my dad waiting up so he could yell at me. "If you stay under this roof, you'll follow my rules!"So I packed my bag again and left again. Not my fault he yelled in the form of a contingency. I went back to my buddy's house and stayed with him. No biggie; he was housesitting for his parents and had plenty of room. We had a hell of a time for a few days, just goofing off; in the meantime, my dad realized it wasn't his place anymore to try to regulate my life, especially on vacation. That was a really powerful turning point in our relationship for us; in time it brought us to a place of grater mutual respect.All I'm saying is, you need to indicate to your parents that you're an adult, and this is an adult decision that you've made, not the whim of a child. And part of proving your adulthood is standing firm and realizing that you're not responsible for other people's actions.I hope college is something you had planned. And I hope it's something that you can figure out how to have it not be contingent on your parent's money, because I think they're going to try to cut you off. Just my feeling. You're smart enough that you should go, though, for sure.

You know little about my life, and have probably had half the experience that I have had regarding these matters. How old are you---29? I have learned twice as much as I knew at 29, and despite what my persona appears to you to be at EvC, I am well equipped to give Taylor some honest advice.Taylor, I don't expect you to take my advice necessarily, but I would like you to consider it. Yes, I have a Christian view about things, and yes that is contrary to what many of these other EvC opinions have to offer.I will say quite honestly that it is my belief that for any one of us...be we gay or straight, male or female...our personal relationship with Jesus is the most important relationship we will ever have in our lives. The problem with many pro gay Christians is that they celebrate their freedom to be gay and passionate with other men more than they celebrate the most important relationship in their life.If anyone has any objections to what I say---so be it...but it is my right to say it.All I am suggesting, Taylor, is that you keep an open mind and heart spiritually as well as humanly.Don't believe this propaganda that vilifies Christians until you have decided for yourself whether or not it is true.Edited by Phat, : further insight

"Unenviable" does not even begin to describe your position, and you have my sympathies.I can't speak from any sort of experience, as I'm not gay, and the closest "coming out" I could have regards my de-conversion from Christianity to Atheism - something I have not, in fact, come out to my parents regarding for fear of a similar reaction to that you have received. This, of course, in spite of the fact that I am financially independent of my parents and live 3000 miles away.I think Crashfrog's advice is the correct path, particularly in light of your parents' new plan to force you to quit your job and take another, while isolating you from a friend. Taylor, at 18, you ARE and adult, whether your parents choose to see you as one or not. They have neither the right nor the ability to force you to do ANYTHING, whatsoever, at this point in your life. All they can do is withdraw their financial support - which is why I would strongly suggest NOT quitting your job, and trying to find a new place to live. The very last thing you need right now is to have precious years of your life wasted as your parents jerk you around trying to force you into matching their preconceived ideal son. You are yourself, it's not changing, and quite honestly everyone needs to either deal with you as you are or fuck off. I would suggest the exact opposite of what your parents intend: seek out other members of the gay community, hopefully locally, but if not then over the internet. Whatever steps you take next, you're going to need some support, and a way to avoid the isolation your parents are going to try to force on you.I see that you live in Oklahoma. Unfortunately, I would expect similarly "warm" responses to your sexual orientation so long as you remain in the Bible Belt. Really, it won't change entirely no matter where you go, as nowhere is safe from bigotry, but you live right in the heart of one of the most homophobic regions in the country.Just try to remember, Taylor, that you are not evil, you are not an outcast everywhere, you are not alone, and that your parents attempts to change who you are, however well-intentioned, are wrong.And for the love of god, don't let them put you in any of those "gay cure" camps - they don't work, they're filled with literal brainwashing, and cause psychological repression that can cast a shadow over the rest of your life.Good luck Taylor.

---

Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

That is sad what happened at your church. It makes me ashamed of Christians. I just want you to know that it is possible to love Jesus and be in a right relationship with Him and also to be gay. The people who want you to reject your gayness are wrong. The people who want you to reject Christianity are also wrong. My advice is to take each day cool and slow. Simply try and do your best to forgive those people who have hurt you. Perhaps it means staying away from them for awhile, to spare yourself further hurt.I know what its like to be rejected by an entire church congregation. I also know what its like to have feelings that most of the conservative Christians say are sinful. I know in my heart when I am being selfish and when I am being honest.I just want to encourage you, Taylor. If you see me in chat, come in and talk with me.

Taylor,
First I want to lend my support. What you are going through is really difficult. I applaud your courage. I am sure your parents will come around. If they don't, pity them and move on.Second point: I understand (I think) Taz's point. As a teen and young adult a good number of my friends were gay. The gay set I knew were educated, hip, etc. I so much wanted to be one of them. I was a trailer park kid. It seems silly now, but the Seattle gay scene (anyone remember the Monastery?) was much cooler than what I did. I so wanted to be gay but was not. Tried my best but failed. Now am happily married and the whole thing seems funny. But would not change a thing.

---

Doctor Bashir: "Of all the stories you told me, which were true and which weren't?"
Elim Garak: "My dear Doctor, they're all true"
Doctor Bashir: "Even the lies?"
Elim Garak: "Especially the lies"

Just so you know where I am coming from, I have decided to support gay people in whatever they do, but I do not understand the desires of a gay person, and feel it is wrong for me.But the most interesting thing you've said was: If you have to ask yourself if your deluded or not, then you need more time to examine whats going on. I am sure your friend is a huge influence. He may be right, but his motives may also be different than yours, as he may want you in his life, in that way.I don't think these desires will ever go away. Above all, do not force yourself into liking women, then get married and start a family, then come out of the closet. Even more people will be hurt.I also agree with subbie. Except that in addition to asking a non-biased church leader, you should just seek God yourself. Jesus opened a door for all of us to directly contact Him. Who knows, maybe you will hear from God.Ask your mother to give you a valid reason, without resorting to the bible, why you cannot be gay. And desease is not an answer, we all get STD's. We all live in sin also.Just my opinion.

You aren't stupid for thinking or trying it. I am fortunate in that my friends are highly sexually diverse so when I 'came out' with regards to my bisexuality I received no hostility - quite the contrary, I got a lot of support. I have not discussed it with my parents, for reasons I will reveal.First though, about the learning to like girls thing, when I came out I was quite young (16 I think), and I thought that I should try and like men in equal quantity as I do women. I felt bad that this wasn't the case and really really tried to do it.After several years I came to the following conclusion: I find attractive whoever I find attractive. I don't worry if that is a male person or a female person, if I find them attractive I don't repress that feeling - I experience it.I identify as bisexual if asked because I feel I find men attractive more often than people that identify themselves as straight. However, in anonymous surveys men who identify themselves as straight routinely admit that they have homosexual fantasies from time to time.As to why I have never told my parents about it? Because I feel as nonchalant about it as described above, I just find attractive people attractive regardless of gender. There is no need to tell my folks this, my sexuality is my own affair. My parents certainly never told me their sexuality nor have they enquired into my own. It is a different story if you are planning on getting a boyfriend of course - it is only polite to warn your parents before bringing him over but I live away from home now, so I never needed worry about that.As indicated, I am fortunate that I have no frame of reference to really understand your position. I have some family in Louisiana and I can somewhat appreciate the extent of the cultural aversity towards homosexuality there. As such I can give you no good advice as to what to do with regards to your friends and family. All I can offer you, is the nugget of wisdom I only gleamed after years of searching: Find attractive whomever you find attractive.I truly hope your social/familial problems are resolved satisfactorily.