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Author Topic:   Please - Some Impartial Advice Needed
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 46 of 240 (405143)
06-11-2007 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by taylor_31
06-08-2007 3:00 PM


Modulous writes:
Find attractive whomever you find attractive. (Message 45)
Good advice.
Some people will object to our boyfriends/girlfriends because they are the "wrong" race, "wrong" religion, "wrong" class, "wrong" gender. But choosing our partners - sexual or otherwise - is one area where it's okay to be selfish. Nobody's opinion matters but yours and your partner's.

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This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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RickJB
Member (Idle past 4990 days)
Posts: 917
From: London, UK
Joined: 04-14-2006


Message 47 of 240 (405148)
06-11-2007 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by taylor_31
06-10-2007 2:09 AM


Taylor writes:
My mom and I are in a strained and formal relationship. She has talked to my dad, and she says that they are going to make me quit my job, get me away from my gay friend, and make me work for my dad in the oil field. Gawd almighty
Please don't let this happen. You are now an adult. It is essential for your personal well-being that you draw a line in the sand on this. If you have to move out and become more independent then so be it. The struggle to get onto your feet will be far, far easier than struggling to live your life according to the will of your parents.
Best of luck!!
Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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taylor_31
Member (Idle past 5923 days)
Posts: 86
From: Oklahoma!
Joined: 05-14-2007


Message 48 of 240 (405156)
06-11-2007 4:58 PM


Again, thanks for the wonderful advice. My mother claims that I can't be gay until I'm financially independent, so I'm thinking of a plan to eventually make that happen. For the time being, however, I'm willing to compromise; I'm not yet desperate to live a "gay" lifestyle; indeed, there is no gay culture in this part of the state.
My mother was infuriated that I told people. So out of respect for my family, especially my mother's church position, I'm going to back off on telling people I'm gay; if they ask, I'll simply say it's none of their business. In addition, I won't talk about boys, or anything else too "gay"; I'll effectively be closeted again, at least to the people who don't know. This is a "coasting" attitude, but I think it's appropriate for my small town; and it's probably best for my family, which includes my little brother.
In college, I'll make a decision with my roommate based on the circumstances. If I decide that I'm ready to have a boyfriend or whatever, then I'll tell my roommate and break off financially with my parents. To prepare for this, I'll ask my counselor for advice on student aid and such things. Regardless of what happens, however, my sophomore year I will definitely be moving out of the dorms, and possibly into an apartment with some gay friends who live up there (it's tentative, of course).
Honestly, though, I'd like to avoid the "breaking off" situation; I would regret the subsequent damage to my family. In reality, I think that my parents will eventually lighten up; they did back off on the gawd-awful oil field idea; and even though I quit my job, I can still see my gay friend. My dad has been a voice of reason in this whole debacle - he actually agrees that it's not a choice! - and I think over time he'll be a moderating factor on my panicking mother.
Overall, I'd like to avoid any desperate decisions right now; it is not yet to that point, and I'm willing to compromise for the moment. But my parents had better understand that I will live my life according to my dictates, and without their interference.

Replies to this message:
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 49 of 240 (405157)
06-11-2007 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by taylor_31
06-11-2007 4:58 PM


my panicking mother.
Bingo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by taylor_31, posted 06-11-2007 4:58 PM taylor_31 has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 50 of 240 (405158)
06-11-2007 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Phat
06-11-2007 3:41 AM


Re: It Hurts
quote:
The people who want you to reject your gayness are wrong. The people who want you to reject Christianity are also wrong.
Hmm, it seems that the people who are doing the most effective job at getting Taylor to reject Christianity are the other Christians in his life, including his parents.
Tell me, Phat, since Christianity and Christians seem to be the source of all of Taylor's pain and difficulties right now, why shouldn't he reject it?
It is doing him no good whatsoever, as far as I can tell, and in fact is actively hindering and hurting him.
Edited by nator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Phat, posted 06-11-2007 3:41 AM Phat has replied

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kalimero
Member (Idle past 2444 days)
Posts: 251
From: Israel
Joined: 04-08-2006


Message 51 of 240 (405162)
06-11-2007 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by ringo
06-11-2007 3:01 PM


Some people will object to our boyfriends/girlfriends because they are the "wrong" race, "wrong" religion, "wrong" class, "wrong" gender.
What about "wrong" species?
taylor 31:
I think you should look at this whole situation as a chance to show your parents what kind of person you can be - regardless of sexual preferences. IOW being gay has nothing to do with anything besides sex. Don't ever change just because your scared - fear is not a good indicator of things to come.

This message is a reply to:
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 52 of 240 (405171)
06-11-2007 7:25 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by taylor_31
06-10-2007 11:59 PM


Re: The mysteries of life
Taylor writes:
Why did you try to be a homosexual? It can be a pretty crappy life at times, so I don't see why someone would put themselves through it unnecessarily. I'm sure there's a good reason, but I can't clearly see it.
You are right that it can be a pretty crappy life at times, and I used to be part of the cause for it.
I grew up being fed the christian fundamentalist views. The result of that was a person (aka my former self) filled with hate for those that were different. I thought I had it all figured out. My view at the time was basically this: I was one of the chosen ones to combat the homosexuals.
In the later parts of my college years, I began to have a crisis with my conscience. On the one hand, my god was telling me to hate. On the other, I was beginning to realize that gay people were people, too. Thinking it through, I just couldn't continue to hate like I did. In other words, you could say that my conscience finally overpowered the hatefilled bible.
So, for the longest time, all the hateful and hurtful things I said in the past haunted me. Remember that I had spent most of my life not viewing gay people as real people simply because of their supposed "sinful ways". This was when I had a sort of revelation. What if I become one of them? Would that allow me to understand homosexuality better? Would that help with the sense of guilt I was having at the time?
But I think the main reason why I wanted to be gay was because I still saw how many people hated gay people, and I contributed to that hate. So, I had this (apparently crazy) idea that I might as well stand by gay people and become a victim of my former self. As you know, it never worked. It may be possible for some people to change their sexuality, I don't know. What I do know is that it never worked in my case.
I recognize that I am only one man so I can't really do much to drastically change the situation. What I have to offer is this. If you want to make your life as enjoyable as possible, lay low for a while. At least lay low until you have a pair of wings and be able to fly on your own. Until then, you are at the mercy of your parents, which are christian bigots.
Now, you have to remember this. Religious bigots are worse than ordinary bigots. Ordinary bigots hate for irrational reasons, and most of them recognize that they are irrational reasons. Religious bigots, on the other hand, think they are justified to hate by their creator. The chances of you being able to convince your parents to stop hating are very low.
However, if by a remote chance you want to contribute for the greater good of society, then continue with what you are doing. Sunshine really is the best disinfectant. Your life might become unbearably miserable, but in the long run more and more people will realize that anyone at all can be one of "them fagots".
Whichever path you want to take is entirely up to you.
P.S. - If tomorrow they suddenly find a cure for heterosexuality, I will gladly take the cure.


We are BOG. Resistance is voltage over current.
Disclaimer:
Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by taylor_31, posted 06-10-2007 11:59 PM taylor_31 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by taylor_31, posted 06-11-2007 9:12 PM Taz has replied
 Message 75 by riVeRraT, posted 06-13-2007 12:36 PM Taz has replied
 Message 115 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-15-2007 9:59 AM Taz has replied

  
taylor_31
Member (Idle past 5923 days)
Posts: 86
From: Oklahoma!
Joined: 05-14-2007


Message 53 of 240 (405196)
06-11-2007 9:12 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Taz
06-11-2007 7:25 PM


Re: The mysteries of life
However, if by a remote chance you want to contribute for the greater good of society, then continue with what you are doing. Sunshine really is the best disinfectant. Your life might become unbearably miserable, but in the long run more and more people will realize that anyone at all can be one of "them fagots".
Of course, I would love to continue what I'm doing; I would love to openly speak about my sexuality, and force my town's residents to accept who I am. I don't mind taking the hits for this; but I worry about my family, especially my little brother. If they were somehow hurt, either physically or societally, by something I did, then I couldn't take it.
A best case scenario would be to start a sexual "revolution" in my narrow-minded town, and open the eyes of hundreds of citizens. However, the chances of this happening are miniscule. The church holds the whip, and I'm sure that I'll be viewed as a prodigal son. Once again, I don't mind taking the licks, but my family will be dragged down as well.
I don't think that I can change anything by myself. There can be no moral duty to do what cannot be done. Perhaps you're right, however; perhaps the moral thing is to be who I am, and to hell with the consequences. Maybe I should hope for the best, and give people the benefit of the doubt, and maybe do some long-term, greater good. However, I want to balance this noble viewpoint with realism. I'm afraid a lot of people will be hurt because of my decisions, and I have to take them into account.
You gave me something to think about, however. We'll see what I do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Taz, posted 06-11-2007 7:25 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Taz, posted 06-11-2007 9:58 PM taylor_31 has not replied
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 54 of 240 (405212)
06-11-2007 9:58 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by taylor_31
06-11-2007 9:12 PM


Re: The mysteries of life
Oh no, don't get me wrong. In fact, I personally recommend you to go with the first option I mentioned: lay low and wait till you can fly on your own. I only threw out the second option because it's there, although I do recommend people (especially the young ones) against taking that route.
A best case scenario would be to start a sexual "revolution" in my narrow-minded town...
Some people might see my view as too radical, but in this particular case I agree wholeheartedly with Magneto.
Take the Eastern Roman Empire, for example. Almost over night, christianity turned from a persecuted religion to the official state religion. How? Because the Emperor was converted and he needed something to unite his empire.
I really really hope they find a cure for heterosexuality. Beside myself, I want to inject all the christians with the serum. See how they like it.
Edited by Tazmanian Devil, : No reason given.


We are BOG. Resistance is voltage over current.
Disclaimer:
Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by taylor_31, posted 06-11-2007 9:12 PM taylor_31 has not replied

  
ABO
Junior Member (Idle past 6134 days)
Posts: 11
Joined: 06-03-2007


Message 55 of 240 (405220)
06-11-2007 10:58 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by NosyNed
06-11-2007 1:50 AM


Dawkins needs more than ammunition...
Dude, if the kid decided to jump of a water tower trying to fly, would you quote Dawkins. Dawkins as an atheist is the cream of the crop but as a bible commentator he’s a dingbat. Any one with even a minimal knowledge of the bible can tell this guy can’t read or he’s just plain ignorant about the bible. Dawkins’s personal war against Christianity does not confirm the non existence of God, neither dose it prove his faith based molecule to man concept. His crowing accomplishment can only be the comfort you and others have received from his predigest garble, in the hope there is no God. It's hard to tell if you think Taylor’s mother is an idiot for being concerned about his future or your afraid he might change his mind.

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AdminPhat
Inactive Member


Message 56 of 240 (405262)
06-12-2007 1:30 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by ABO
06-11-2007 10:58 PM


Warning
As a Christian Moderator here at EvC, I want to warn you that your comment is
  • Inappropriate in context of this thread (Off Topic)
  • Makes Christians out to look even worse...in other words, you are not helping Taylor feel very confidant
    Please keep comments in this thread directed appropriately.


    GOT QUESTIONS? You may click these links for some feedback:
  • General discussion of moderation procedures
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  • Forum Guidelines
    ***************************************
    New Members: to get an understanding of what makes great posts, check out:
  • "Post of the Month" Forum
    "DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU"
    AdminPhat

  • This message is a reply to:
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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 57 of 240 (405266)
    06-12-2007 1:39 AM
    Reply to: Message 50 by nator
    06-11-2007 5:26 PM


    Re: It Hurts
    Nator writes:
    Tell me, Phat, since Christianity and Christians seem to be the source of all of Taylor's pain and difficulties right now, why shouldn't he reject it?
    He has every right to reject it. My point to him is that the actions and attitudes of hypocritical Christians are not Christs fault.
    The Jesus I know and love also loves Taylor---as well as all of you. All I am trying to do is to show Taylor that not all Christians are without understanding and compassion. I commend everyone who cares about Taylor and has given him good advice in this thread. Good advice can come from a Christian as well as a humanist or any other world view of humanity.
    It is good to have a wide diversity of views, rather than to stick with just one group....the church included.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 50 by nator, posted 06-11-2007 5:26 PM nator has not replied

      
    molbiogirl
    Member (Idle past 2641 days)
    Posts: 1909
    From: MO
    Joined: 06-06-2007


    Message 58 of 240 (405290)
    06-12-2007 4:55 AM
    Reply to: Message 53 by taylor_31
    06-11-2007 9:12 PM


    Re: The mysteries of life
    perhaps the moral thing is to be who I am, and to hell with the consequences
    Absolutely, taylor. But, like Taz says, maybe later. After all, it's only a year or so til you go to college, right?
    You mentioned that you might look into financial aid. DO IT. So that you will be free to do as you wish.
    I'm a student too. And I support myself entirely with financial aid.
    It will make things easier if you ask your parents to stop claiming you as a dependent on their 1040s, starting next year. You have to be "independent" (not claimed) for a year in order to qualify for federal loans on your own. (I don't mean to say that you won't get a loan unless you're an "independent" student, but the school will take your parent's financial info into account when they're figuring out how much you can borrow if you're a "dependent" student and oftentimes that means a lot less money.)
    I don't think that I can change anything by myself. There can be no moral duty to do what cannot be done.
    You don't know that! You're no Emperor of the East Roman Empire, but you don't know that you "can't change anything".
    Ellen DeGeneres was a third rate comedienne who got fired from a lousy sitcom back in the 80s ... because she came out.
    Now look at her. And it's not just her. Television has changed (Will & Grace etc.). Movies have changed (Brokeback Mountain). All because brave souls like Ellen (like you) have made a point of being honest.
    And none of this "Aw shucks I'm not nobody" stuff either. You don't know what you're going to accomplish! You don't know who you will become! Don't sell yourself short.
    Things are changing. Albeit slowly, but still. It won't be too many years until the Supreme Court is faced with the ""gay marriage" thing. After all, the landmark 2003 Lawrence vs. Texas decision struck down state sodomy laws. Chief Justice Roberts provided free legal advice for gay plaintiffs on a groundbreaking 1996 Supreme Court case, Romer vs. Evans, which struck down a Colorado ballot initiative banning antidiscrimination laws for gays. They refused to hear that Massachusetts gay marriage case a while back, but they can't refuse forever.
    After the Supreme Court throws out the "Defense of Marriage Act", things will start to move a lot quicker.
    Take heart and take care.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 53 by taylor_31, posted 06-11-2007 9:12 PM taylor_31 has not replied

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     Message 60 by Taz, posted 06-12-2007 12:13 PM molbiogirl has replied

      
    ringo
    Member (Idle past 412 days)
    Posts: 20940
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005


    Message 59 of 240 (405344)
    06-12-2007 12:06 PM
    Reply to: Message 58 by molbiogirl
    06-12-2007 4:55 AM


    Re: The mysteries of life
    molbiogirl writes:
    After the Supreme Court throws out the "Defense of Marriage Act", things will start to move a lot quicker.
    I'm optimistic about that too. I blame the Bandwagon Effect for a lot of anti-gay sentiment. ("It's illegal, so it must be bad.") Most people probably wouldn't even know the Bible mentions homosexuality if it wasn't for a few asshole preachers.
    Courage, Taylor.

    Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
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    This message is a reply to:
     Message 58 by molbiogirl, posted 06-12-2007 4:55 AM molbiogirl has not replied

      
    Taz
    Member (Idle past 3291 days)
    Posts: 5069
    From: Zerus
    Joined: 07-18-2006


    Message 60 of 240 (405346)
    06-12-2007 12:13 PM
    Reply to: Message 58 by molbiogirl
    06-12-2007 4:55 AM


    Re: The mysteries of life
    molbiogirl writes:
    Movies have changed (Brokeback Mountain).
    I still have reservations with the movie Brokeback Mountain. The first gay themed movie that ever made it to the big screen had to prove that the fundies have been right all along.
    (1) Homosexuality is only about sex and that there is no love involved. After one of the two gay heros of the story got rejected by his secret boyfriend, he went out to get a mexican prostitute and planned to move back to his parents' ranch with another man other than his secret boyfriend.
    (2) Homosexuality will only lead to misery in life. Basically, there is no gay person in the story that was happy. The hero of the story even got killed by a mob of homophobes.
    (3) Homosexuality destroys the lives of your family members. Every person related to the two gay heros of the story was affected by their relationship. Everyone's life was ruined.
    (4) Homosexuality destroys marriages. Need I say anything about this?
    (5) Homosexuality is immoral. Look at how unchristian the two gay heros are!
    Like many people, I was dragged to the theater by my better half. While I was there, I thought I might as well enjoy the movie. As I watched, it occurred to me that this movie pretty much summed up the entirety of the fundy arguments against homosexuality in the past decades. Just a few days after the movie came out, the fundies were already using this movie as a canon ball for their cause on CNN.
    Anyway, is it me or there's a hint of christian propaganda in Brokeback?


    We are BOG. Resistance is voltage over current.
    Disclaimer:
    Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
    He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 58 by molbiogirl, posted 06-12-2007 4:55 AM molbiogirl has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 61 by crashfrog, posted 06-12-2007 7:37 PM Taz has replied
     Message 65 by molbiogirl, posted 06-12-2007 9:03 PM Taz has replied

      
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