Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
7 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,816 Year: 3,073/9,624 Month: 918/1,588 Week: 101/223 Day: 12/17 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Creationism museum opens in Alberta
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 211 of 303 (405260)
06-12-2007 1:21 AM
Reply to: Message 209 by jar
06-12-2007 1:02 AM


Re: Exhibits raised by you?
quote:
LOL. It's there for the same reason the carny had a bearded lady and the sword swallower. It helps bring in the rubes.
No, that does not answer the question of how it is relevant.
So one more time, "How is some display of an empty tomb relevant to the issue of Biblical Creation Museums?"
It is an exhibit in one!! I think I also said already that the resurrection shows that there is more than natural science at work. The One that rose from that tomb is the creator of the universe, in case you somehow missed that??
That is why, rather than a sword swallower, or evolution swallower, He made it into a creation museum!
quote:
Of course the conclusions change as we learn more and more. But that has nothing to do with the FACT that both a Young Universe and The Great Wetting have been completely refuted.
Those are not subject to opinions, they are facts.
Beware of strong delusion. Sonds like you stand at the brink here, from the claims that you throw out as if they had some meaning.
quote:
Nonesense. Even if there is a GOD that created the universe, it does not refute the physical evidence.
No need to.
quote:
Look up at the skies at night. The stars are there. The Galaxies are there.
The heavens declare the glory of God, and the firmament sheweth His handiwork. So??
quote:
But also stop and consider the theological implications of what you are saying. If either the Universe really were Young or the Great Wetting actually happened, the the person responsible, ie:God, later left false clues that all show that neither are true. In other words, if the Universe is Young or there was a world-wide flood, then God is a liar and trickster.
Unless maybe it is merely you that is a misunderstander?
quote:
You can find my reasoning all over EvC. Start in Columnists Corner.
No need to all Christians must believe in God, and the resurrection. You remain my witness.
quote:
whether or not I believe in GOD and the resurrection is irrelevant to the issue. Neither of those have anything to do with how old the Universe is or if there ever was a world-wide flood.
That is debatable.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by jar, posted 06-12-2007 1:02 AM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 246 by Jaderis, posted 06-12-2007 7:00 AM simple has not replied

molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2641 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 212 of 303 (405261)
06-12-2007 1:22 AM
Reply to: Message 205 by simple
06-12-2007 12:48 AM


I spoke too soon!
Number 6!
I do use the bible for some things, yes. One thing it does do is record the resurrection. It talks about the witnessed event.
Circulus in demonstrando (circular argument). When someone uses what they are trying to prove as part of the proof of that thing.
Number 7!
Ever notice science has changed somewhat since, say, the 1940ies?
Red herring. Introducing irrelevant facts or arguments to distract from the question at hand.
You know, at this rate, you're going to plow thru all 34 fallacies in the next day or two!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by simple, posted 06-12-2007 12:48 AM simple has not replied

Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 213 of 303 (405263)
06-12-2007 1:35 AM
Reply to: Message 210 by simple
06-12-2007 1:10 AM


Re: BeingChristian does not mean you must remain ignorant.
The topic is not me, it is museums. I know for reasons in my life, as millions of others do. I don't need to get personal here. The fact is we, the millions and millions of believers do have reasons in our lives, many times it is even miracles. We know by experience. Observations. Miracles, and a million other ways. That is how we know. And all these things we know, unbelievers cannot know, unless they become believers. Otherwise how could you know, since science can't help??
Another appeal to popularity. A lot of people thinking an idea is right doesnt make it right. Since you refuse to post any of the evidence used by these millions, I accept your concession.
You could say the singularity is whispering in your ear if you like, and Ned is in drag. That is not my business. If you claimed that was science, why, then we might ask you to give more than a claim.
You didn;t answer the question. Concession accepted.
Actually, most of the world agrees with me. More correctly, by numbers you are the only one claiming it doesn't, and offer no evidence but you lack of ability to see!
Another appeal to popularity. Concession accepted.
See, in a faith forum, one can have faith. One does not need to pretend it is science. But, on the other hand, if one claims that science precludes all things supernatural, why, one must back that up, mustn't one?
Yes, you can have faith. But you're still required to give your reasons for that faith when challenged. If you expect us all to simply validate your faith and say "good for you," why are you in a DEBATE forum?
You 'want' to hear why they believe. Well, what can I do for you here? Perhaps have a nice long walk about, and really chat it up with a lot of people of faith, and see what you come up with??
Been there. Done that. Have the t-shirt. I was raised as a near-fundamentalist Christian. I know why I used to believe, and it;s part of the reason I don't any more. But I can;t address your reasons, or at least the reasons you refer to by bringing up "millions of people," if I don't know them, now can I?
No, it supports an earth about 10 times older than that! (har har)
Oh look, you've spotted another typo! How clever you are!
Well, I contest you are not freakin sure there is no ghost peeking over your shoulder. Prove it. Otherwise stick to what you are sure of.
I don;t see any evidence of the ghost. If you contend one exists, please provide it. If you cannot, I'll assume it doesnt exist, just like anything else with no evidence. By your logic, I should live in deathly fear that some night a vampire will come and attack me, because I cant prove they don't exist. Absence of evidence is evidence of absence.
You can have no evidence of the supernatural unless you come to God and ask for it, in my opinion.
Your opinion is irrelevant, and I used to be a Christian who prayed to God quite often. I never received any evidence for his existence or the existence of any other supernatural entity.
Because we are all entitled to our beliefs, and the belief that I found most historical, evidenced, and present and observed, and working was the God of the bible, and His son.
Thank you for finally answering a question. Now, onto the next: why literalism? Why Creationism? A very significant portion of those "millions and millions" are like our friend Jar - Christian, but not Creationists or Literalists. What support do you have for your interpretation in face of observable evidence to the contrary?
Many of the people that start these museums feel much the same way. We do not like being called animals, and having you claim that we started off as a singularity. We do not like you pretending there are no angels, and God, and supernatural, when you speak from only ignorance. You can't know that, and should have the decency to admit it!
So...your entire argument is based on the idea that it's highly unpleasant to consider the fact that you are the descendent of primitive apes? Seriously, keys, that's just ridiculous. That's an Appeal to Emotion fallacy. It's highly unpleasant to think I might get cancer, but it's still entirely true.

Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by simple, posted 06-12-2007 1:10 AM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 216 by molbiogirl, posted 06-12-2007 1:45 AM Rahvin has replied
 Message 222 by simple, posted 06-12-2007 2:15 AM Rahvin has replied

molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2641 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 214 of 303 (405264)
06-12-2007 1:37 AM
Reply to: Message 210 by simple
06-12-2007 1:10 AM


This is priceless.
That is how we know. And all these things we know, unbelievers cannot know, unless they become believers. Otherwise how could you know
We know because we know and you don't know because you don't know!
Well.
keys.
You done gone an did it.
You done whupped me.
You done took me out t th woodshed.
keys: "God exists!"
molbiogirl: "Show me."
keys: "Because I said so!"
keys: "Jesus rose from the dead!"
molbiogirl: "Show me."
keys: "Because I said so!"
keys: "The flood happened!"
molbiogirl: "Show me."
keys: "Because I said so!"
Evidence, keys!
Still waiting on that evidence!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by simple, posted 06-12-2007 1:10 AM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by simple, posted 06-12-2007 1:48 AM molbiogirl has not replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 215 of 303 (405265)
06-12-2007 1:38 AM
Reply to: Message 206 by molbiogirl
06-12-2007 12:52 AM


Re: Oh for the love of his noodley appendage!
quote:
Are you referring to this?
Yes. A part of an exhibit in the museum.
quote:
You noticed an exhibit?
That's your evidence?
Offer some evidence! Any evidence!
You can research it if you want to. Apparently this really is in the museum. I did give a link in the same post as the pics, I think.
quote:
And then, on top of everything else, you throw down the gauntlet
List 2 known lies in the museum, so we can see what you mean.
and when both RAZD and Rahvin rise to the bait, you dodge with this?
They listed something in the museum, some lies that were exhibited or posted there?? What they said struck me as general creation/evolution points, not specific to the museums?
quote:
as I actually would like to do that, I am not yet confident of the fairness of the moderators here
You just added two fallacies to your list!
Argumentum ad nauseam (argument to the point of disgust). The fallacy of trying to prove something by saying it again and again. Of course, it is not fallacious to state the truth again and again; what is fallacious is to expect the repetition alone to substitute for real arguments.
On the list of your 'imaginary crimes list'. OK. Does that mean I should be very confident of moderation already??
quote:
Argumentum ad ignorantiam (argument to ignorance). The fallacy of assuming something is true simply because it hasn't been proven false.
Do you assume God is either true or false?? Prove it either way, then! Or are you just engaging in a little Argumentum ad ignorantiam? People that live in glass houses...
quote:
You have asserted that there is evidence of god.
The burden of proof is on you.
It is also in me! And it won't be in you unless and until you come to God. Until then, you can likely have no evidence of Him. In other words, you will have to continue speaking from a point of ignorance. I never said there was evidence for you. Only for the millions of believers that tapped into the power you shun.
quote:
You have made the bare assertion that Jesus rose from the dead.
The burden of proof is on you.
This IS a faith and belief forum, remember. One of the greatest faith documents in the world is the bible, and that IS evidence. You can like that or lump that. In matters of faith the bible we count as evidence. In the natural little realm of science, they cannot count anything out of their little cult of the selected natural only sphere as evidence!
quote:
I'm beginning to think you don't want to discuss anything.
Prove me wrong, keys. I'm begging you. Prove me wrong.
Don't want to discuss those icky science questions?
IN the context of faith and belief, that includes, like the creation museums include, the supernatural that you can't see!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by molbiogirl, posted 06-12-2007 12:52 AM molbiogirl has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 219 by molbiogirl, posted 06-12-2007 1:55 AM simple has not replied

molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2641 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 216 of 303 (405267)
06-12-2007 1:45 AM
Reply to: Message 213 by Rahvin
06-12-2007 1:35 AM


My stars!
Number 8!
Ladies and gentleman!
We have number 8!
We do not like being called animals, and having you claim that we started off as a singularity. We do not like you pretending there are no angels, and God, and supernatural, when you speak from only ignorance. You can't know that, and should have the decency to admit it!
So...your entire argument is based on the idea that it's highly unpleasant to consider the fact that you are the descendent of primitive apes? Seriously, keys, that's just ridiculous. That's an Appeal to Emotion fallacy.
C'mon keys!
I know you can do it!
Just 26 more to go!
Ev-i-dence!
Ev-i-dence!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by Rahvin, posted 06-12-2007 1:35 AM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by Rahvin, posted 06-12-2007 1:55 AM molbiogirl has replied
 Message 224 by simple, posted 06-12-2007 2:23 AM molbiogirl has replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 217 of 303 (405268)
06-12-2007 1:48 AM
Reply to: Message 214 by molbiogirl
06-12-2007 1:37 AM


Re: This is priceless.
Sorry that was news. But, yes, to get access to the things that are spiritual, we need to get spiritual first, and only Jesus can get us spiritual, in any big way that I am aware of.
Of course there are other things spiritual as well, like demons, occult, etc etc. But, whatever way you want to experience the spiritual, it sure ain't gonna be in the sphere of science.
Besides, I never said I would take you out to the woodshed. You haven't really struck me as a worthy opponent. No offense.
Edited by keys, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by molbiogirl, posted 06-12-2007 1:37 AM molbiogirl has not replied

Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 218 of 303 (405269)
06-12-2007 1:55 AM
Reply to: Message 216 by molbiogirl
06-12-2007 1:45 AM


Re: My stars!
Pssst! I don't think our friend keys understands what a logical fallacy is, or why it's bad to be making them!

Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by molbiogirl, posted 06-12-2007 1:45 AM molbiogirl has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by molbiogirl, posted 06-12-2007 2:03 AM Rahvin has replied

molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2641 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 219 of 303 (405270)
06-12-2007 1:55 AM
Reply to: Message 215 by simple
06-12-2007 1:38 AM


Re: Oh for the love of his noodley appendage!
I never said there was evidence for you.
Au contraire, mon frere!
To wit:
On the other hand, the earth abounds with evidence for a God
Let's review that quote again, shall we?
On the other hand, the earth abounds with evidence for a God
I'm from Missouri.
Show me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by simple, posted 06-12-2007 1:38 AM simple has not replied

molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2641 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 220 of 303 (405271)
06-12-2007 2:03 AM
Reply to: Message 218 by Rahvin
06-12-2007 1:55 AM


Re: My stars!
Pssst! I don't think our friend keys understands what a logical fallacy is, or why it's bad to be making them!
[whispers] I know! But when it suits his fancy ...
Or are you just engaging in a little Argumentum ad ignorantiam?
... he tries to play too! Isn't that just adorable? [/whispers]
[whispers] But, you see, what he doesn't realize is ...
On the list of your 'imaginary crimes list'.
... it's an imaginary crime! [/whispers]
Edited by molbiogirl, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by Rahvin, posted 06-12-2007 1:55 AM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 221 by Rahvin, posted 06-12-2007 2:10 AM molbiogirl has not replied

Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 221 of 303 (405272)
06-12-2007 2:10 AM
Reply to: Message 220 by molbiogirl
06-12-2007 2:03 AM


Re: My stars!
... it's an imaginary crime!
...fits fine with his imaginary friend, and his imaginary evidence!

Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by molbiogirl, posted 06-12-2007 2:03 AM molbiogirl has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by simple, posted 06-12-2007 2:19 AM Rahvin has not replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 222 of 303 (405273)
06-12-2007 2:15 AM
Reply to: Message 213 by Rahvin
06-12-2007 1:35 AM


Re: BeingChristian does not mean you must remain ignorant.
quote:
Another appeal to popularity. A lot of people thinking an idea is right doesnt make it right. Since you refuse to post any of the evidence used by these millions, I accept your concession.
Guess it must be tough, having to lose so much you need to resort to accepting imaginary concessions! See, I never said it was because of people thinking. It is because of real effects in their lives. -Evidences.
quote:
Yes, you can have faith. But you're still required to give your reasons for that faith when challenged. If you expect us all to simply validate your faith and say "good for you," why are you in a DEBATE forum?
I don't need it validated, God does that. You must accept that people have faith for whatever reasons they say, if any. I have indicated personal experiences and the bible. That is plenty of reasons to believe, and needs no stamp from y'all.
quote:
Been there. Done that. Have the t-shirt. I was raised as a near-fundamentalist Christian. I know why I used to believe, and it;s part of the reason I don't any more. But I can;t address your reasons, or at least the reasons you refer to by bringing up "millions of people," if I don't know them, now can I?
No, you can't. If you had known them, maybe you would not have backslid. We need to know real reasons, however. Maybe that is why God lest you walk about.
quote:
I don;t see any evidence of the ghost. If you contend one exists, please provide it. If you cannot, I'll assume it doesnt exist, just like anything else with no evidence. By your logic, I should live in deathly fear that some night a vampire will come and attack me, because I cant prove they don't exist. Absence of evidence is evidence of absence.
Bottom line, you don't believe in spirits. Great, so can you bring us science to prove there are none??
Do you have any solid reasons ghosts do not exist? Why would I take your opinion over the bible?
quote:
Your opinion is irrelevant, and I used to be a Christian who prayed to God quite often. I never received any evidence for his existence or the existence of any other supernatural entity.
No, my opinion is scriptural. He is a rewarder of them the diligently seek Him. Maybe He didn't want to scare you, you seem somewhat hung up on ghosts.
quote:
Now, onto the next: why literalism? Why Creationism? A very significant portion of those "millions and millions" are like our friend Jar - Christian, but not Creationists or Literalists. What support do you have for your interpretation in face of observable evidence to the contrary?
Well, that is a big topic. Let's just accept that many believe this way.
quote:
So...your entire argument is based on the idea that it's highly unpleasant to consider the fact that you are the descendent of primitive apes? Seriously, keys, that's just ridiculous. That's an Appeal to Emotion fallacy. It's highly unpleasant to think I might get cancer, but it's still entirely true.
No, it is not ridiculous. I am not a descendant of any monkey or ape. That is insulting. But I don't think it is topical.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by Rahvin, posted 06-12-2007 1:35 AM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 225 by Rahvin, posted 06-12-2007 2:28 AM simple has replied
 Message 247 by Jaderis, posted 06-12-2007 7:18 AM simple has not replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 223 of 303 (405274)
06-12-2007 2:19 AM
Reply to: Message 221 by Rahvin
06-12-2007 2:10 AM


Re: My stars!
Who was that again that keeps talking about pink unicorns, and ghosts on his shoulder??? Oh yes, that would be you.
Edited by keys, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by Rahvin, posted 06-12-2007 2:10 AM Rahvin has not replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 224 of 303 (405275)
06-12-2007 2:23 AM
Reply to: Message 216 by molbiogirl
06-12-2007 1:45 AM


Re: My stars!
Evidence for....what?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by molbiogirl, posted 06-12-2007 1:45 AM molbiogirl has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 229 by molbiogirl, posted 06-12-2007 3:12 AM simple has replied

Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 225 of 303 (405276)
06-12-2007 2:28 AM
Reply to: Message 222 by simple
06-12-2007 2:15 AM


Re: BeingChristian does not mean you must remain ignorant.
No, it is not ridiculous. I am not a descendant of any monkey or ape. That is insulting. But I don't think it is topical.
I'm done with this. keys, every post you have made is a pile of logical fallacies and repetition. You haven't made or supported a single point. You've engaged in dishonest debate tactics and refused to answer demands for evidence. You have no concept of the meaning of a logical fallacy, and why making them invalidates any argument that springs from them.
This is no longer a debate, it's like arguing with a child who says "nuh uh," and "I know you are but what am I."

Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by simple, posted 06-12-2007 2:15 AM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by simple, posted 06-12-2007 2:41 AM Rahvin has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024