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Author Topic:   Please - Some Impartial Advice Needed
Taz
Member (Idle past 1401 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 76 of 240 (405537)
06-13-2007 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by riVeRraT
06-13-2007 12:36 PM


Re: The mysteries of life
riverrat writes:

Quick question, can you define that better?
Was God actually telling you something, or this is what was preached from the pulpit?


Both, actually. To put simply, I was raised to hate. I also talked to god everyday in forms of prayers and the answers I got (in forms of feelings) agreed with everything I was taught.

I will never understand that. There is nothing that Jesus said, that would drive you to act that way.
Or does God come down and tell anyone to hate, I am convinced of that.

How is it hard to understand? Just look at how many people flocked to vote for legislations that would curb gay rights. Just look at how many states have some sort of ban on gay marriage or any form of civil union for gay people that even remotely resemble marriage. Clearly, it's either mass hysteria or that is the message people are getting from their religious beliefs.

First you hated gays, now you hate religious fanatics.

Well, not really. I never said I hate religious fanatics. If anything, I feel sorry for them for being forever trapped in a delusion.

If there's anything I've been repeating myself over and over on these boards, it's my overwhelming support for people's right to free speech as well as religion. People can worship god, buddha, allah, the pink unicorn, or Britteney Spears for all I care. What I am oppose to is people using religion as some kind of excuse to legislate morality in this country.

First you thought being gay needed a cure, now you think being heterosexual needs a cure?

Trust me, I think heterosexuals need a cure purely for the welfare of this planet. Even in the USA (the richest and most powerful country in the world), millions of children live in poverty. Take a flight to India and the people there are in even more extreme poverty. It took 6 thousand years for the world population to reach 2 billion, and it only took the last 100 years for the population to get to 6.5 billion. So surely, even you can see the trend to where this is going.

To me, it seems like you've never really changed your heart at all. You've just shifted your unrighteous hate from one camp to another.

If you want to think of it that way. Just remember that there is a difference. Before, I wanted to ship the faggots to an island and let them rot there. Nowadays, all I ask for is that religious people stop trying to shove their religion down my throat and the throats of my fellow humans. Big difference.



We are BOG. Resistance is voltage over current.

Disclaimer:

Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.

He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by riVeRraT, posted 06-13-2007 12:36 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by riVeRraT, posted 06-13-2007 5:08 PM Taz has responded

  
taylor_31
Member (Idle past 4033 days)
Posts: 86
From: Oklahoma!
Joined: 05-14-2007


Message 77 of 240 (405543)
06-13-2007 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by iano
06-13-2007 9:41 AM


It appears that up to that point, you considered it morally wrong (due to your religious background I'd gather) and by resolving it in manner you did (dumping your religion) you now have no problem with the agenda in principle

Sorry, I wasn't very clear on that point.

I didn't "dump" my religion because of my sexuality; rather, I dumped my religion for other reasons, which are probably off-topic here. (Basically, I couldn't, and can't, find any evidence of a god.) The acceptance of my sexuality was a definite plus, but it certainly wasn't my sole reason for abandoning Christianity.

I don't understand. If repressed and not entertained then what was there to feel guilty about? What sin had been committed if it has been repressed like you say? There is no sin in temptation

What did I feel guilty about? ...Well, because I liked boys. I struggled with a sin that was openly ridiculed in my school and community. Occasionally, I would "slip" and fantasize, or whatever - this only led to more repentance and more shame. I felt that there was something deeply wrong with me and I couldn't get rid of it; in fact, it only seemed to get worse.

You struggled to keep a lid on it I'd warrant. But I find it hard to believe it was repressed (for all those years) in the total manner you suggest.

I tried my hardest. Who wants to go to hell?

I wouldn't underestimate the power of religion. The fear of hell, and the promise of heaven, can make people do radical and bizarre things.

And its a well known fact that illicitness heightens the pleasurable aspects of things - in the arena of sexuality as well as many others - so there is an 'addiction-like' element to be considered in the shame and guilt like I have already said.

That's genuinely very interesting, but I admit that I don't understand.

When I was younger, I beat up my little brother with my Bible (long story). Afterwards, when I saw the bruises on his legs, I felt so guilty that I vowed to never hurt him again. Of course, I didn't become addicted to beating my little brother; rather, the shame made me abstain from that behavior.

So how does shame and guilt become addicting?

Sex might seem like a huge thing. But it is only one facet of all that is involved in a close personal relationship with another - and by no means the central aspect of such relationships.

That's very true. This could be said, however, to a straight guy that's my age. The only difference is that I like boys and the straight guy doesn't.

Are you gay? If all you can say is that you are sexually attracted to men then the answer is not necessarily "yes!". Not by a long shot.

Again, think of a straight guy. Most straight guys my age are, by and large, only sexually attracted to women. They probably haven't found a relationship that is akin to marriage. This doesn't mean that you can't classify them as "straight", simply because they've never had a "real" relationship.

It's the same principle with me, except that I like guys. I don't see what your point has to do with homosexuality.

You didn't want God. You weren't surrendering to God.

Sorry, but this is remarkably arrogant.

How do you know that I didn't want God? I did want God; in fact, I needed God. I don't think that you're in a position to judge my motives in my quest for God.

You make a lot of assumptions in your "sketch" of Christianity, including the definition of "sin". You also mention the "boundaries" of man, but I'm betting that these boundaries are incredibly nebulous and vague, especially since they are supposed to be known to the whole world. Further, I would argue that we really have no idea what "God" wants.

I think that there are better ways to rationalize and understand our world, and those ways don't include blindly following the Bible, if that is what you do.

Sorry if this was too strident; thanks for your input and advice!

Edited by taylor_31, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by iano, posted 06-13-2007 9:41 AM iano has not yet responded

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 29 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 78 of 240 (405559)
06-13-2007 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Taz
06-13-2007 1:17 PM


Re: The mysteries of life
How is it hard to understand? Just look at how many people flocked to vote for legislations that would curb gay rights.

I didn't say there wasn't people like that in the world, I just don't understand how they interpret the bible in that way. I never did.

Clearly, it's either mass hysteria or that is the message people are getting from their religious beliefs.

Funny, it was my religious beliefs that made me let go, and accept gay marriage (for the state). Inside me, I will never understand homosexual attractions. I also don't agree with it, based on that it is not the same thing. Man and woman becomes one, seems to be more difficult than man, and man. But those are my own personal feelings, that I will have to deal with. Hopefully God will show me one day. For the time being, if God doesn't want gays to be married, then He will have to come and enforce it.

What I am oppose to is people using religion as some kind of excuse to legislate morality in this country.

Well that's a great point, but it seems that everyone pretty much let's their surroundings, and belief's govern their morality. They then would vote that way, or press thye issue that way.

I mean what is supposed to be the deciding factor in where our morality lies in this country?
Should it be strictly science, and none invasion on the next person?

In other words, if science says it's ok, and as long as we are not infringing on anyone's personal rights (whatever that is).

So surely, even you can see the trend to where this is going.

Homosexuality, the cure for over population, lol.
Maybe that should be their slogan.

I don't know, I really don't worry. I think it is just a matter of time before some super virus wipes out half of the population. I think with all the medicines we take, we are developing into a race that will soon suffer great disaster, and loss.

Nowadays, all I ask for is that religious people stop trying to shove their religion down my throat and the throats of my fellow humans. Big difference.

As long as you don't hate, I will agree with you.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Taz, posted 06-13-2007 1:17 PM Taz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by nator, posted 06-13-2007 7:14 PM riVeRraT has responded
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nator
Member (Idle past 279 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 79 of 240 (405577)
06-13-2007 6:54 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by iano
06-12-2007 8:16 PM


quote:
If you had become sexually aroused by animals in second grade and repressed it and tried to make yourself like girls..etc. Then what? Would you be on this site looking for impartial advice?

So, can you explain to me how homosexuality is just like bestiality?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by iano, posted 06-12-2007 8:16 PM iano has not yet responded

    
nator
Member (Idle past 279 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 80 of 240 (405578)
06-13-2007 6:57 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Taz
06-12-2007 10:09 PM


Re: The mysteries of life
That avatar picture is of Laurie Anderson, an experimental performance artist and musician.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Taz, posted 06-12-2007 10:09 PM Taz has not yet responded

    
nator
Member (Idle past 279 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 81 of 240 (405579)
06-13-2007 7:14 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by riVeRraT
06-13-2007 5:08 PM


Re: The mysteries of life
quote:
I also don't agree with it, based on that it is not the same thing. Man and woman becomes one, seems to be more difficult than man, and man.

Are you talking about sex?

Er, plenty of straight couples do many of the same things that gay couples do. Many gay couples don't engage in the buttsex at all, for example, many straight couples do.

And straight couples don't all "do the same thing", either.

I find it interesting that you only mention homosexual men in your bewilderment over the difficulty you imagine they have getting it on.

You do "get" how lesbians might have sex, don't you? That's not quite so difficult to imagine, it it? I'll bet you have "imagined" it many times. (heh, heh, heh)

quote:
I mean what is supposed to be the deciding factor in where our morality lies in this country?

The individual decides their own morality.

quote:
I don't know, I really don't worry.

...says the man with 5 kids.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by riVeRraT, posted 06-13-2007 5:08 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by riVeRraT, posted 06-13-2007 9:24 PM nator has responded

    
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 29 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 82 of 240 (405595)
06-13-2007 9:24 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by nator
06-13-2007 7:14 PM


Re: The mysteries of life
Are you talking about sex?

no.

The individual decides their own morality.

I don't think we were talking purely about individual morality, but how the morality of religious fanatics, or anyone else for that matter, affects our society.

Plus according to you, there are people who do not decide, or own their own morality, says the woman with no kids.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by nator, posted 06-13-2007 7:14 PM nator has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by nator, posted 06-14-2007 6:57 AM riVeRraT has responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 83 of 240 (405618)
06-13-2007 11:57 PM


Buzsaw Weighing In Here
Hi Taylor. Welcome to EvC. Without resorting to hate speech on homosexuality I want to list a few facts for you to consider.

1. Clearly the Bible in both the Old Testament and the New Testament teaches that any deviant form of sex is sinful, restricting sexual activity strictly between a husband and a wife.

2. Homosexuality is not natural. Whether mankind evolved or whether we were created by God, the natural physiology of our bodies is designed for male and female sex union, both pertaining to the animals and to humans. It's also in the insect world.

3. What's normal pertaining to our bodies is best.

4. What is abnormal is naturally rejected, unacceptable and repulsive to the majority of society, so don't be surprised that your family and school et al are upset about this announcement. Until recent years, nearly all cultures in history rejected this abnormal lifestyle.

5. This lifestyle has been unlawful in many cultures and nations throughout history.

6. Sex outside of marriage has a history of initiating health problems.

7. Inhibitions pertaining to abnormality are good and necessary for society. We all must exercise them to some extent. Bad things like rape, murder, unwanted pregnancy, venerial disease et al happen when folks have no inhibitions.

8. Parents are generally more experienced, wiser and more knowledgeable than children. They generally love their children and advocate what's really best for them. My advice is to honor, love and obey them so long as you are under their roof with a good attitude towards these who've worked hard to feed you, provide your home, take care of you and protect you all your life.

9. The Bible is a reliable source for morality, religion, fulfilled prophecy, social guidance and everything else pertaing to life. Nations and cultures which have historically followed it's principles have been the most blessed, free and prosperous nations of the world so my advice is to hold to it and it's principles if you want a good life.

10. Some are suggesting that all the female hormones given to cows and other animals which provide our food supply are a factor in the present phenomenon of increased homosexuality. I'm not able to verify anything on this but perhaps there's something to it. We purposfully avoid these products going with natural when we can.

11. I personally know a young man who had similar feelings as you. He was a Christian and asked me what God thought about homosexuality. I showed him where Biblically it was a sinful practice and that God abhored it to the point of destroying cities in which it was rampant and including it in the death penalty for Jews under the Mosaic Levitical Law et al.
He never mentioned it again to me but went on to marry a fine woman and raise a family. His urge left him. This happens often and it is not impossible to go natural regardless of one's urges.

The above is for your consideration so as to hopefully help you understand why this is so problematic with your friends and family and why your first inhibitions and guilt feelings were likely for your good. What is abnormal would naturally likely cause one to have this first reaction. That's for a purpose, to keep your lifestyle normal and natural as you are made to be as per the physiology of your body sex wise. :cool:

I will be praying for you.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW
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crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 84 of 240 (405619)
06-14-2007 12:15 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by Buzsaw
06-13-2007 11:57 PM


Re: Buzsaw Weighing In Here
It's also in the insect world.

Lol! You wish it was. You're more likely to find in the insect world that some female is jamming her ovipositor right into the larvae of some other species to lay her eggs - the male being an essentially disposable sperm transportation vehicle. In a lot of such species, the male adults cannot even feed.

That's the model you're looking at, Buz? Once again, I guess we see what happens when Buz thinks he knows it all - he winds up knowing nearly nothing at all.

What's normal pertaining to our bodies is best.

I'm curious, in your view, what the mechanism is that inflicts on my body (for instance) the consequences of other people thinking what I do isn't normal.

What's normal to our bodies is what's best for our bodies. Taylor has a different body than you do. That's why it's not good for diabetics to eat sugar, for instance, even though it's perfectly normal for everybody else.

More Buz facts, I guess. Taylor, don't assume for a minute that his facts have any connection to reality.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Buzsaw, posted 06-13-2007 11:57 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 1401 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 85 of 240 (405624)
06-14-2007 12:41 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by riVeRraT
06-13-2007 5:08 PM


Re: The mysteries of life
Hey riverrat, read Buzsaw's latest post. If you really think the bible brought out the tolerance in you, perhaps you could talk to Buz a little bit? There's more of a chance that he'll listen to a fellow christian rather than us hellbounders.



We are BOG. Resistance is voltage over current.

Disclaimer:

Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.

He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by riVeRraT, posted 06-13-2007 5:08 PM riVeRraT has not yet responded

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 69 days)
Posts: 3508
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 86 of 240 (405627)
06-14-2007 1:14 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by Buzsaw
06-13-2007 11:57 PM


Re: Buzsaw Weighing In Here
Taylor, Buzsaw is another one of those who has his own agenda, as you can probably tell from his rant.

3. What's normal pertaining to our bodies is best.

So next time you're sick, I expect you won't take any medicine, because it's normal for you not to have penicillin coursing through your veins.

4. What is abnormal is naturally rejected, unacceptable and repulsive to the majority of society,

Define "abnormal." Does it relate to how prevelant a particular characteristic is in society? Is less than 50% "abnormal?" What about less than 10%? Is that "abnormal?"

I'd be willing to bet that under any definition of "abnormal" that you can come up with that homosexuality fits into, your warped vision of christianity would fit as well. Does that make you "unacceptable and repulsive?"

6. Sex outside of marriage has a history of initiating health problems.

Well then it's a damn good thing we don't let gays marry, isn't it? I mean, then they would have fewer health problems, they'd live longer, and you'd have one less red herring to toss out about why homosexuality is bad.

He never mentioned it again to me but went on to marry a fine woman and raise a family. His urge left him.

I simply do not believe that this ever happened.

Edited by subbie, : No reason given.


Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat


This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Buzsaw, posted 06-13-2007 11:57 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
Rahvin
Member (Idle past 1296 days)
Posts: 3964
Joined: 07-01-2005


Message 87 of 240 (405634)
06-14-2007 1:57 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by Buzsaw
06-13-2007 11:57 PM


Re: Buzsaw Weighing In Here
Hi Taylor. Welcome to EvC. Without resorting to hate speech on homosexuality I want to list a few facts for you to consider.

And yet you've replaced the hate speach with twisted logic, bigotry, ignorance, and outright lies.

Good job there, Buzz.

1. Clearly the Bible in both the Old Testament and the New Testament teaches that any deviant form of sex is sinful, restricting sexual activity strictly between a husband and a wife.

True. A literal interpretation of the Bible does, in fact, mean that homosexuality, and basically everything else right up to masturbation are evil. And Numbers 31: 1-54, then the Isrealites kill all the males and non-virgin females of their enemy, and take the virgins for themselves. Then rape was fine. Or when Lot offered his daughters up to the lusts of the citizenry of Sodom so that the angels visiting him wouldn't have to deal with their "lusts." Or, later, when Lot had sex with his daughters.

Hrm. The Bible seems to be a bit mixed up with its sexual morality. Apparently you can rape all you want as long as you marry the girl after killing all of the men in her city, and sex with both of your daughters is fine as long as you're really drunk. Mind you, the Lot story happened immediately after the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, for homosexuality. Lot and his family were the "righteous" ones. Guess pretty much everything goes as long as you aren't gay.

2. Homosexuality is not natural. Whether mankind evolved or whether we were created by God, the natural physiology of our bodies is designed for male and female sex union, both pertaining to the animals and to humans. It's also in the insect world.

False. Homosexuality has been observed in many species, in their natural environments and in the laboratory. Other primates like baboons, that I know of off the top of my head, as well as simple fruit flies have been observed engaging in homosexual activity. Since it happens in the natural world, it is clearly natural.

3. What's normal pertaining to our bodies is best.

It's not "natural" or "normal" to go to a doctor, have surgery, brush your teeth, drive a car, or a multitude of other common practices you wouldn;t call "sinful." Besides, "normal" is entirely subjective.

4. What is abnormal is naturally rejected, unacceptable and repulsive to the majority of society, so don't be surprised that your family and school et al are upset about this announcement. Until recent years, nearly all cultures in history rejected this abnormal lifestyle.

This is exactly the same argument used to bar interracial marriages until recently. It;s a completely bigoted statement with no basis other than an appeal to the majority. And homosexuality is NOT a "lifestyle." It's a gender attraction, nothing more, nothing less.

5. This lifestyle has been unlawful in many cultures and nations throughout history.

So has interracial marriage. Hell, in "many cultures," it's unlawful for women to show their faces without a man present. This is an appeal to tradition, and is also horseshit.

6. Sex outside of marriage has a history of initiating health problems.

Also bullshit. Married couples can share STDs just as easily as unmarried couples. If you refer to couples who have never had sex with anyone else...well, that applies to gay people, too. Monogomy DOES help prevent the spread simply by shear numbers, but neither being heterosexual nor wearing a ring create some sort of exclusive club with regard to STD immunity. A gay couple who stays monogomous or - gasp - gets MARRIED, would have the same protection.

7. Inhibitions pertaining to abnormality are good and necessary for society. We all must exercise them to some extent. Bad things like rape, murder, unwanted pregnancy, venerial disease et al happen when folks have no inhibitions.

So...gay sex is not on the level of rape and murder. Once again, this is another argument that was once used against interracial marriage. We call people who use these arguments "bigots."

8. Parents are generally more experienced, wiser and more knowledgeable than children. They generally love their children and advocate what's really best for them. My advice is to honor, love and obey them so long as you are under their roof with a good attitude towards these who've worked hard to feed you, provide your home, take care of you and protect you all your life.

And yet parents can also be wrong, especially when they've been fed bigoted ideas about homosexuality for their entire lives, many of which are simply not true.

9. The Bible is a reliable source for morality, religion, fulfilled prophecy, social guidance and everything else pertaing to life. Nations and cultures which have historically followed it's principles have been the most blessed, free and prosperous nations of the world so my advice is to hold to it and it's principles if you want a good life.

Actually...the US, being the nation with the highest Christian population in the world, also has the highest per capita violence (including rape and murder), the highest per capita infant mortality rates, the highest number of abortions, no national healthcare, and severe poverty issues. Some of the LEAST religious nations on Earth (mostly the Scandinavian nations, as I recall) have the LOWEST levels of violence, the lowest levels of infant mortality and abortions (despite abortion being completely legal and easy to obtain even for the poor), national healthcare for all citizens, and virtually no poverty. Other nations, like Japan, are at least predominantly non-Christian, yet also have extremely low crime rates.

Not to mention all the rape, murder, religious tolerance, and genocide in the Bible. Yep. Great moral guide.

10. Some are suggesting that all the female hormones given to cows and other animals which provide our food supply are a factor in the present phenomenon of increased homosexuality. I'm not able to verify anything on this but perhaps there's something to it. We purposfully avoid these products going with natural when we can.

Riiiiight.

11. I personally know a young man who had similar feelings as you. He was a Christian and asked me what God thought about homosexuality. I showed him where Biblically it was a sinful practice and that God abhored it to the point of destroying cities in which it was rampant and including it in the death penalty for Jews under the Mosaic Levitical Law et al.
He never mentioned it again to me but went on to marry a fine woman and raise a family. His urge left him. This happens often and it is not impossible to go natural regardless of one's urges.

Good for your friend, if that was his choice. However, I've never heard of anyone outside of a "I have this friend" story, ever really switch gender attraction. I have, however, heard of many, many homosexuals who repressed their urges, were married, and had kids to
fit in," and wound up either total basket cases or at the least ruined their families when they finally revealed that their entire married lives had been a repressed lie.

Modern psychologists do not view homosexuality as any form of disorder whatsoever, and instead recommend against the sort of brainwashing and extreme repression and suppression techniques utilized in the various religious "gay cure" camps.

The above is for your consideration so as to hopefully help you understand why this is so problematic with your friends and family and why your first inhibitions and guilt feelings were likely for your good. What is abnormal would naturally likely cause one to have this first reaction. That's for a purpose, to keep your lifestyle normal and natural as you are made to be as per the physiology of your body sex wise.

The above is to point out where Buzz, here, is either talking out his ass or just a simple bigot. We're all allowed to believe as we choose, of course, and if you decide that Christianity is still for you and it requires you to suppress your homosexual urges, well, good luck to you.

Just don't pay attention to lies and bigotry when deciding what's best for yourself. The bigots, like Buzz here, may well have what they think are your best interests at heart, and I'd even go so far as to applaud even his intentions, but their beliefs and opinions really don't have much basis in reality. They're only relevant if you have the same strict literalist faith they have.

Good luck, Taylor.


Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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nator
Member (Idle past 279 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 88 of 240 (405658)
06-14-2007 6:57 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by riVeRraT
06-13-2007 9:24 PM


Re: The mysteries of life
Are you talking about sex?

quote:
no.

Then what you said made no sense.

You said, "I also don't agree with it, based on that it is not the same thing. Man and woman becomes one, seems to be more difficult than man, and man."

First off, did you mean to say that "man and man" is more difficult, or that "man and woman" is more difficult, because currently your sentence says the latter.

If you meant to say that "man and woman" is more difficult, then I misread what you said the first time and you should ignore what I've written below.

If you aren't talking about sex, then it makes no sense to say that it is "more difficult" for man and man to "become one". Men are more similar to other men men in terms of communication styles, health needs, ways they express emotions, etc., and the same it true for women. "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" (although I hate those books).

In short, people of the same gender usually have a much easier time understanding one another on many levels and it is more difficult, not less, for a mixed gender couple to learn to understand the other.

The individual decides their own morality.

quote:
I don't think we were talking purely about individual morality, but how the morality of religious fanatics, or anyone else for that matter, affects our society.

Right, but you asked, "I mean what is supposed to be the deciding factor in where our morality lies in this country?"

The government should generally not be legislating morality. Certainly not anything relating to what is being discussed in this thread.

quote:
Plus according to you, there are people who do not decide, or own their own morality, says the woman with no kids.

How does my not having any kids have anything to do with what you just said? OK, it seems you didn't understand, so I'll explain it to you.

The reason I mentioned you having five children is because you said you were not worried about overpopulation and in fact didn't really ever think about it. I mentioned the number of children that you have because it is not surprising to me that someone who has a large number of children probably hasn't thought about the very serious issue of overpopulation. Just keep pumping them out.

Rat, how can you say, "I think it is just a matter of time before some super virus wipes out half of the population. I think with all the medicines we take, we are developing into a race that will soon suffer great disaster, and loss." and then look at your children and not be frightened for them or your decendents?

Someone who says that, and also has lots of children, and says he never thought about the impact of overpopulation on the planet, really doesn't appear to care about the fate of their great grandchildren and beyond.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by riVeRraT, posted 06-13-2007 9:24 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by riVeRraT, posted 06-14-2007 10:58 AM nator has responded

    
nator
Member (Idle past 279 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 89 of 240 (405659)
06-14-2007 7:01 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by Buzsaw
06-13-2007 11:57 PM


Re: Buzsaw Weighing In Here
quote:
Homosexuality is not natural.

Neither is wearing clothes, cutting your hair, shaving your beard.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Buzsaw, posted 06-13-2007 11:57 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

    
nator
Member (Idle past 279 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 90 of 240 (405662)
06-14-2007 7:15 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by Buzsaw
06-13-2007 11:57 PM


Re: Buzsaw Weighing In Here
quote:
10. Some are suggesting that all the female hormones given to cows and other animals which provide our food supply are a factor in the present phenomenon of increased homosexuality.

"Increased" homosexuality? What is the evidence that there is more homosexual people and not just more out homosexual people?

These days, just because not quite as many gay people have to remain closeted in fear of their lives from people like you doesn't mean there are more gay people, it just means that they are more visible.

There's been in increase in the visibility of lesbians as well as gay men. Is this due to the "female hormones" in milk too?

There's also estrogens in soybeans and soy products. Are all the people in China and Japan "gayer" because they eat a lot of soy?

quote:
This lifestyle has been unlawful in many cultures and nations throughout history.

The Christian lifestyle has been unlawful in many cultures and nations throughout history.

Therefore, it must be wrong.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Buzsaw, posted 06-13-2007 11:57 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

    
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