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Author Topic:   Please - Some Impartial Advice Needed
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 406 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 44 of 240 (405098)
06-11-2007 8:50 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by taylor_31
06-08-2007 3:00 PM



Just so you know where I am coming from, I have decided to support gay people in whatever they do, but I do not understand the desires of a gay person, and feel it is wrong for me.
But the most interesting thing you've said was:
Is it possible that she's right and I am deluding myself? Perhaps I am confused; perhaps I'm relying too heavily on my friend and his influence;
If you have to ask yourself if your deluded or not, then you need more time to examine whats going on. I am sure your friend is a huge influence. He may be right, but his motives may also be different than yours, as he may want you in his life, in that way.
I don't think these desires will ever go away. Above all, do not force yourself into liking women, then get married and start a family, then come out of the closet. Even more people will be hurt.
I also agree with subbie. Except that in addition to asking a non-biased church leader, you should just seek God yourself. Jesus opened a door for all of us to directly contact Him. Who knows, maybe you will hear from God.
Ask your mother to give you a valid reason, without resorting to the bible, why you cannot be gay. And desease is not an answer, we all get STD's. We all live in sin also.
Just my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by taylor_31, posted 06-08-2007 3:00 PM taylor_31 has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 406 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 75 of 240 (405534)
06-13-2007 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Taz
06-11-2007 7:25 PM


Re: The mysteries of life
On the one hand, my god was telling me to hate.
Quick question, can you define that better?
Was God actually telling you something, or this is what was preached from the pulpit?
Religious bigots, on the other hand, think they are justified to hate by their creator.
I will never understand that. There is nothing that Jesus said, that would drive you to act that way.
Or does God come down and tell anyone to hate, I am convinced of that.
If tomorrow they suddenly find a cure for heterosexuality, I will gladly take the cure.
First you hated gays, now you hate religious fanatics.
First you thought being gay needed a cure, now you think being heterosexual needs a cure?
To me, it seems like you've never really changed your heart at all. You've just shifted your unrighteous hate from one camp to another.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Taz, posted 06-11-2007 7:25 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by Taz, posted 06-13-2007 1:17 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 406 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 78 of 240 (405559)
06-13-2007 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Taz
06-13-2007 1:17 PM


Re: The mysteries of life
How is it hard to understand? Just look at how many people flocked to vote for legislations that would curb gay rights.
I didn't say there wasn't people like that in the world, I just don't understand how they interpret the bible in that way. I never did.
Clearly, it's either mass hysteria or that is the message people are getting from their religious beliefs.
Funny, it was my religious beliefs that made me let go, and accept gay marriage (for the state). Inside me, I will never understand homosexual attractions. I also don't agree with it, based on that it is not the same thing. Man and woman becomes one, seems to be more difficult than man, and man. But those are my own personal feelings, that I will have to deal with. Hopefully God will show me one day. For the time being, if God doesn't want gays to be married, then He will have to come and enforce it.
What I am oppose to is people using religion as some kind of excuse to legislate morality in this country.
Well that's a great point, but it seems that everyone pretty much let's their surroundings, and belief's govern their morality. They then would vote that way, or press thye issue that way.
I mean what is supposed to be the deciding factor in where our morality lies in this country?
Should it be strictly science, and none invasion on the next person?
In other words, if science says it's ok, and as long as we are not infringing on anyone's personal rights (whatever that is).
So surely, even you can see the trend to where this is going.
Homosexuality, the cure for over population, lol.
Maybe that should be their slogan.
I don't know, I really don't worry. I think it is just a matter of time before some super virus wipes out half of the population. I think with all the medicines we take, we are developing into a race that will soon suffer great disaster, and loss.
Nowadays, all I ask for is that religious people stop trying to shove their religion down my throat and the throats of my fellow humans. Big difference.
As long as you don't hate, I will agree with you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Taz, posted 06-13-2007 1:17 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by nator, posted 06-13-2007 7:14 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 85 by Taz, posted 06-14-2007 12:41 AM riVeRraT has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 406 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 82 of 240 (405595)
06-13-2007 9:24 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by nator
06-13-2007 7:14 PM


Re: The mysteries of life
Are you talking about sex?
no.
The individual decides their own morality.
I don't think we were talking purely about individual morality, but how the morality of religious fanatics, or anyone else for that matter, affects our society.
Plus according to you, there are people who do not decide, or own their own morality, says the woman with no kids.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by nator, posted 06-13-2007 7:14 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by nator, posted 06-14-2007 6:57 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 406 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 91 of 240 (405679)
06-14-2007 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by Buzsaw
06-13-2007 11:57 PM


Re: Buzsaw Weighing In Here
1. Clearly the Bible in both the Old Testament and the New Testament teaches that any deviant form of sex is sinful, restricting sexual activity strictly between a husband and a wife.
Or your father if he is drunk.
2. Homosexuality is not natural.
All sins are natural.
3. What's normal pertaining to our bodies is best.
I normally like to masturbate, and do many harmful things to my body.
4. What is abnormal is naturally rejected, unacceptable and repulsive to the majority of society,
Cancer is pretty normal, and look how we handle it.
I don't see anyone looking for a cure for homosexuality (anymore).
5. This lifestyle has been unlawful in many cultures and nations throughout history.
So was speaking your mind on an open forum, still is in some countries.
6. Sex outside of marriage has a history of initiating health problems.
So two virgin males who get married should have no problems then.
Bad things like rape, murder, unwanted pregnancy, venerial disease et al happen when folks have no inhibitions.
Well if either him or his boyfriend weren't born with anything, and they both enver contracted anything, then they should be fine, unless they start raping each other.
8. Parents are generally more experienced, wiser and more knowledgeable than children. They generally love their children and advocate what's really best for them. My advice is to honor, love and obey them so long as you are under their roof with a good attitude towards these who've worked hard to feed you, provide your home, take care of you and protect you all your life.
I agree with you, that you should honor your parents, but only if they are worth honoring. Too many parents today abuse their children, both mentally and physically.
9. The Bible is a reliable source for morality, religion, fulfilled prophecy, social guidance and everything else pertaing to life.
The bible is confusing as shit.
The bible is useless, unless you are seeking God, and asking God to explain things to you. No matter what we will never understand everything that is in the "good book". All we can do is make up what we think it means.
It is God that will grow us.
You don't feel if taylor seeks God, and God thinks it is wrong to be gay, that God will let him know, and even change him?
10. Some are suggesting that all the female hormones given to cows and other animals which provide our food supply are a factor in the present phenomenon of increased homosexuality.
This is all here say. I have found throughout life, that I am amazed at the amount of people that are gay, or bi. It is only now that it is becoming safer to come out, that it appears there are more.
I'd be more willing to accept that children who are abused sexually, and bad parenting would be more of a cause of someone being gay than cows milk. But that is not proven either.
No matter what, I believe some people are just born that way.
11. I personally know a young man who had similar feelings as you. He was a Christian and asked me what God thought about homosexuality. I showed him where Biblically it was a sinful practice and that God abhored it to the point of destroying cities in which it was rampant and including it in the death penalty for Jews under the Mosaic Levitical Law et al.
He never mentioned it again to me but went on to marry a fine woman and raise a family. His urge left him. This happens often and it is not impossible to go natural regardless of one's urges.
I know someone also, who decided similar. But deep inside he will always have those desires. Let's hope neither one has a homosexual relationship, and then hurts their whole family.
I don't think you can ever get rid of those desires. I myself have many sinful desires. The only thing that stops me, is God. But will forever be a battle in my mind.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Buzsaw, posted 06-13-2007 11:57 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 406 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 92 of 240 (405680)
06-14-2007 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 88 by nator
06-14-2007 6:57 AM


Re: The mysteries of life
Now you are confusing me.
My exact quote:
Man and woman becomes one, seems to be more difficult than man, and man.
So yes, I am saying that man and woman are more difficult. How much more difficult is it to understand the opposite species? And then try to get along for a life time?
I would think men, would have an easier time at understand other men, than woman-man.
To me, it is almost like an unfair advantage.
In short, people of the same gender usually have a much easier time understanding one another on many levels and it is more difficult, not less, for a mixed gender couple to learn to understand the other.
Yes, that is what I am saying. pffft.
The government should generally not be legislating morality. Certainly not anything relating to what is being discussed in this thread.
well I guess we were on the subject of gay marriage there for a sec.
I think all laws are a reflection of our morality.
Look over in the middle east where you can lose a hand for stealing, over here that would be immoral.
The reason I mentioned you having five children is because you said you were not worried about overpopulation and in fact didn't really ever think about it. I mentioned the number of children that you have because it is not surprising to me that someone who has a large number of children probably hasn't thought about the very serious issue of overpopulation. Just keep pumping them out.
nator, you know nothing about me. So stop pretending.
I have 3 of my own. I had one with an ex, then met my current wife, and we had two more. I love kids, and want to have at least two in my life.
The other two, came with my wife, and I love them. One is handicap, and is the best kid in the world. All of them receive there needs in life. It's not like we have an overpopulation problem here in America.
Once I got my children, I cut my nuts, so as not to make too many. I think that is fair.
and then look at your children and not be frightened for them or your decendents?
I am always frightened for them, sheesh.
Someone who says that, and also has lots of children, and says he never thought about the impact of overpopulation on the planet, really doesn't appear to care about the fate of their great grandchildren and beyond.
If I didn't have kids, then there might not be any rational people left on the planet.
I saved the planet, there, pffft

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by nator, posted 06-14-2007 6:57 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by nator, posted 06-14-2007 9:33 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 406 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 102 of 240 (405750)
06-14-2007 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Taz
06-14-2007 1:08 PM


Re: Buzsaw Weighing In Here
I can't recall at all the last time I heard of or saw a christian rally to support gay rights or a christian rally to protest against christians that want to take away gay rights. In fact, I can't remember the last time I heard or saw any christian at all publically talk in front of a camera or in front of a crowd denouncing the christian bigots.
Well, you can start remembering. I just received an email with the following content, and it was addressed to all "prayer warriors" in my church.
quote:
Apostle Dupree,
I am asking for prayer from every Christian that you know. The City of Newark has designated this Week as Gay Pride Week and have a litany of events taking place glorifying homosexuality. The City ”s Mayor, Cory Booker and Councilwoman Dana Rone who acknowledged that she was gay several months ago RAISED THE GAY FLAG OVER CITY HALL AT A FLAG RAISING CEREMONY. This flag is flying right now. When I think how we were in the City Hall Chambers praising God and now to see this it is so sad. Our City desperately needs prayer and help.
Pastor Bridgeforth
This was my response to them:
What kind of prayer are they asking for? Because I will not be praying for anything but that those people who are gay, that if God doesn't want them to be gay, that they will know, and come to a personal relationship with the Lord, and then the Lord can change them.
If we pray for things like that to be restricted in CITY HALL, then all activities, including our own religious views will be restricted. The same right that gives us our freedom to worship God the way we want, and not be persecuted, is the same right that allows them to be gay. (That is America)
Remember, we all live in sin.
It is our job to love, and not judge, like Jesus.
My 2 cents, :-)
To which our new Pastors reply was:
I know that this is a sensitive issue in many circles, both Christian & non-Christian. However, Scripture is clear that God hates homosexuality (sin) and loves the sinner (all of us) (Rom. 1:18-27; Eph 5:3) . So our prayers should defintely be geared towards these people come to an encounter with Jesus.
What do you think?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Taz, posted 06-14-2007 1:08 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by jar, posted 06-14-2007 7:18 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 109 by Taz, posted 06-14-2007 8:23 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 406 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 112 of 240 (405845)
06-15-2007 7:56 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by jar
06-14-2007 7:18 PM


Re: Your pastor is way off in left field.
Your pastor is 100% wrong. Screw the encounter with Jesus, that is unimportant and irrelevant, pointless and worthless.
All that sounds like to me, is that you have never had an encounter with Jesus, so I guess you would think that way, as I once did.
I am sorry jar, but I believe Jesus (not religion) can change people, for the better.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by jar, posted 06-14-2007 7:18 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by jar, posted 06-15-2007 10:41 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 406 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 113 of 240 (405847)
06-15-2007 7:59 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by Taz
06-14-2007 8:23 PM


Re: Buzsaw Weighing In Here
Well, I have learned much here, and I am just trying to make a difference among other Christians.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Taz, posted 06-14-2007 8:23 PM Taz has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 406 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 114 of 240 (405848)
06-15-2007 8:03 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by nator
06-14-2007 9:33 PM


Re: The mysteries of life
I had no idea that that marriage success was a competition between couples.
It's not supposed to be, but people like you will be the first to point out the success rate of heterosexual marriages in this forum.
If a couple has more than two children, they are are contributing to the world's overpopulation. In particular, more American children contribute to the depletion of the world's resources many times more than children in most any other place in the world.
Why, because we have most of the food? That is pure BS nator, way to take a thread off-topic....again.
You should try feeding the rest of the world someday, it's not as easy as you think it would be.
To be honest, having lots of kids because you like to have them around doesn't seem like the best reason to have them.
Just back off, you are un-American.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by nator, posted 06-14-2007 9:33 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by molbiogirl, posted 06-15-2007 11:16 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 159 by nator, posted 06-16-2007 7:34 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 406 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 149 of 240 (405935)
06-15-2007 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by molbiogirl
06-15-2007 11:16 AM


Re: The mysteries of life
And how does this supposed "unfair advantage" translate into real world consequences?
Has nothing to do with consequences, or competition. It is what it is. As soon as the discussion gets into why gays shouldn't be allowed to marry, the opposition (past tense) will always bring up the divorce rate of heterosexuals, and the percentage rate at which heterosexuals are poorly raising their children.
It all stems from secular reasoning why gays shouldn't be allowed to marry, or more accurately, that gay marriage is just not marriage.
I thought we were all past that, but apparently not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by molbiogirl, posted 06-15-2007 11:16 AM molbiogirl has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 406 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 151 of 240 (405939)
06-15-2007 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by jar
06-15-2007 10:41 AM


Re: Your pastor is way off in left field.
Homosexuals don't need to be changed for the better.
I didn't say homosexuals, I said people, and we all can be changed for the better.
I have decided to accept gay marriage IN THE STATE, not religion. I have stated that I do not feel it is right (and that I might be wrong about it) but have chosen to not let my personal opinion affect others.
I do not understand homosexual attractions, and perhaps I never will.
I feel it is a sin, but I am not judging anyone who does it, since I myself am a sinner. I am not happy with my own sin, so why should I be happy with others?
And once again the classic Christian Communion of Bobble-heads defense.
What is it exactly that I am defending?
I had the encounter and Jesus said "Tell riVeRraT to get marriage rights for my Gay Sheep and to tell his pastor to stop persecuting me."
Now you are making shit up, like in your Bush's stupid war thread.
This is the gospel according to jar....amen.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by jar, posted 06-15-2007 10:41 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by jar, posted 06-15-2007 4:07 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 167 by Phat, posted 06-17-2007 4:27 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 406 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 152 of 240 (405943)
06-15-2007 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by molbiogirl
06-15-2007 1:37 PM


Re: Impartial advice
It's a common fundie tactic.
Or a truth.
Way to oppose a tactic, with another tactic.
But you've compared the wrong thing, and have not answered the question, what is next?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by molbiogirl, posted 06-15-2007 1:37 PM molbiogirl has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 406 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 156 of 240 (405980)
06-15-2007 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by jar
06-15-2007 4:07 PM


Re: Your pastor is way off in left field.
How come your encounter with Jesus is valid and mine is "made up"?
Because you had to ask.
I think the funniest thing about this thread, is that none of this advice is really that impartial.
But I am sure talyor will pick and choose what rings true in his heart.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by jar, posted 06-15-2007 4:07 PM jar has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 406 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 165 of 240 (406130)
06-17-2007 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 159 by nator
06-16-2007 7:34 PM


Re: The mysteries of life
I said that in response to something you said, rat. YOU are the one bringing competition into the conversation.
Ok, fine, but I wasn't bringing that up on the premise of competition. I am just pointing out what the facts are, and what they could mean.
Also to represent, that homosexual marriage, and heterosexual marriage, are not the same thing. there is an obvious difference.
The worlds resources, rat. Food, yes, but also oil, natural gas, water, coal, wood/paper, iron and other metals, various minerals, etc. The average American throws away more stuff in a year than millions of people in the developing world will ever own in their entire lives.
Again, it is clear that you have no idea how hard it would be to give away that stuff to other nations, if you wanted to.
There is enough food, and supplies for everyone to exist at this current point in time, ESPECIALLY HERE.
How is it unamerican to want the planet to be able to sustain human (which includes American humans) life far into the future?
Because it is an unwarranted thing to request. Everything is fine.
It is the governments of the world, and the corrupt people of the world that are screwing things up. And that is a percentage thing, not a population thing.
Having lots of kids just because you like having them around just doesn't seem like a great reason to have them, is all.
You assuming that is unAmerican, it is a free country, and your overpopulation worries, are just opinions. There is nothing that makes your opinion superceed mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by nator, posted 06-16-2007 7:34 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by Taz, posted 06-17-2007 11:53 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 175 by nator, posted 06-18-2007 8:24 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
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