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Author Topic:   Discussion of John MacKay's Views
Admin
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Message 31 of 77 (405668)
06-14-2007 8:40 AM


I agree with Adminnemooseus that this thread has changed focus from "Hi y'all!" to creation/evolution. If there are no objections, in a few hours I will retitle this thread "Discussion of John MacKay's Views" and move it to the [forum=-11] forum. I'm open to suggestions for a better title and/or a more appropriate forum.
Edited by Admin, : Grammar.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by bluegenes, posted 06-14-2007 10:21 AM Admin has not replied
 Message 33 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-14-2007 11:55 AM Admin has not replied

  
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2477 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 32 of 77 (405677)
06-14-2007 10:21 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Admin
06-14-2007 8:40 AM


I was enjoying reading through the thread yesterday, and would certainly like to see it kept open. I think your proposed title is very appropriate, as that is the inevitable and natural direction the thread was moving towards.
I say inevitable because of this:
Eilidh writes:
I have watched debate after debate between Mr J McKay and some of the top scientist in the world. So far, non of them have held a candle to Mr McKay. I urge you to listen to a few of his discs.
A red rag to a few bulls around here, certainly.
A Creationist to whom none of a sample of the world's top scientists can hold a candle must be a unique creature, and certainly worthy of a thread of his own with his name in the title.
Let's go!
Edited by bluegenes, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Admin, posted 06-14-2007 8:40 AM Admin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Eilidh, posted 06-15-2007 5:30 AM bluegenes has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 33 of 77 (405688)
06-14-2007 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Admin
06-14-2007 8:40 AM


As Eilidh has asked for a few days to digest my comments on Mr Mackay, we probably don't need a new thread for him right now.

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 Message 31 by Admin, posted 06-14-2007 8:40 AM Admin has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
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Member Rating: 2.3


Message 34 of 77 (405695)
06-14-2007 12:15 PM


Thread moved here from the Coffee House forum.

  
Eilidh
Junior Member (Idle past 6127 days)
Posts: 21
Joined: 06-11-2007


Message 35 of 77 (405831)
06-15-2007 5:30 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by bluegenes
06-14-2007 10:21 AM


Sheeeeesh, I don't half have an unfortunate way with words, do I? Sorry, about the candle statement. That's me all over, just jump in with two feet, about what I think.
Can I blame the Celtic in me?
Anyway, I'm only getting a few minutes each day on the net, so I have no answers for you, and probably I never will. As I stated, I have little understanding of science. I'm sure you would all wipe the floor with me.
However, I do wish to take time and go over the questions anyway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by bluegenes, posted 06-14-2007 10:21 AM bluegenes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Straggler, posted 06-15-2007 8:33 AM Eilidh has replied
 Message 39 by bluegenes, posted 06-15-2007 3:28 PM Eilidh has not replied

  
Straggler
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Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 36 of 77 (405850)
06-15-2007 8:33 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Eilidh
06-15-2007 5:30 AM


Any Chance
Hi Eilidh
Is there any chance of getting Mr John Mackay to actually take part in this debate himself? I understand that you are personal friends with him? Woud you ask him?
You have freely admitted that you are ill equipped to defend his views against those with more scientific training than yourself.
Would John Mackay not be interested in defending his own work from the fairly detailed attacks that have already been made on it?
It would be an interesting discussion and test of his position don't you think?
A debate with a real life 'creationist scientist' rather than someone re-iterating the views and findings of others would be worth seeing (and taking part in!).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Eilidh, posted 06-15-2007 5:30 AM Eilidh has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Eilidh, posted 06-15-2007 1:23 PM Straggler has not replied

  
Eilidh
Junior Member (Idle past 6127 days)
Posts: 21
Joined: 06-11-2007


Message 37 of 77 (405906)
06-15-2007 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Straggler
06-15-2007 8:33 AM


Re: Any Chance
Oh yes, I can certainly ask him. I can't say he'll do it, but it's no problem to ask. I'll just go e-mail him right now.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Straggler, posted 06-15-2007 8:33 AM Straggler has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Eilidh, posted 06-15-2007 1:52 PM Eilidh has not replied

  
Eilidh
Junior Member (Idle past 6127 days)
Posts: 21
Joined: 06-11-2007


Message 38 of 77 (405919)
06-15-2007 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Eilidh
06-15-2007 1:23 PM


Re: Any Chance
That's the e-mail off. I don't know where in the world he is now though, so this may take a few weeks.
I think a debate with him and y'all would be really cool.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Eilidh, posted 06-15-2007 1:23 PM Eilidh has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Straggler, posted 06-16-2007 3:46 PM Eilidh has replied

  
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2477 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 39 of 77 (405941)
06-15-2007 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Eilidh
06-15-2007 5:30 AM


Eilidh writes:
Sheeeeesh, I don't half have an unfortunate way with words, do I? Sorry, about the candle statement. That's me all over, just jump in with two feet, about what I think.
The words are fine, and I don't doubt that you personally find Mr. MacKay convincing, so no need to be sorry! Indeed, if those words lead to him joining a discussion here, then I, for one, am glad that you typed them. All I meant is that the words would be interestingly provocative to some.
Can I blame the Celtic in me?
If you had done something wrong, would that be fair to other Celts?

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Straggler
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Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 40 of 77 (406061)
06-16-2007 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Eilidh
06-15-2007 1:52 PM


Marvellous!
I wait with eager anticipation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Eilidh, posted 06-15-2007 1:52 PM Eilidh has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Eilidh, posted 06-19-2007 4:15 AM Straggler has replied
 Message 42 by Eilidh, posted 06-19-2007 4:16 AM Straggler has not replied

  
Eilidh
Junior Member (Idle past 6127 days)
Posts: 21
Joined: 06-11-2007


Message 41 of 77 (406309)
06-19-2007 4:15 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by Straggler
06-16-2007 3:46 PM


Re: Marvellous!
Hi, Got an e-mail back from John, (Posted Beneath)
Just tell them to put their money where their mouth is and put up someone to
debate so we can see publicly who is making the blunders. I will be in
UK/Scotland in October/November so we can do it then if they get in soon. Let me
know what happens and thanks for your concern. If there is any thing you want to
ask go for it.
In Christ
John Mackay
So, does anyone want to take up a LIVE challenge?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Straggler, posted 06-16-2007 3:46 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Wounded King, posted 06-19-2007 4:43 AM Eilidh has not replied
 Message 44 by sidelined, posted 06-19-2007 7:32 AM Eilidh has not replied
 Message 45 by Percy, posted 06-19-2007 10:33 AM Eilidh has not replied
 Message 46 by jar, posted 06-19-2007 10:38 AM Eilidh has not replied
 Message 51 by Straggler, posted 06-19-2007 1:29 PM Eilidh has not replied
 Message 52 by NosyNed, posted 06-19-2007 1:39 PM Eilidh has replied
 Message 58 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-19-2007 4:23 PM Eilidh has not replied

  
Eilidh
Junior Member (Idle past 6127 days)
Posts: 21
Joined: 06-11-2007


Message 42 of 77 (406310)
06-19-2007 4:16 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by Straggler
06-16-2007 3:46 PM


Re: Marvellous!
ooops, double post, sorry.
Edited by Eilidh, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Straggler, posted 06-16-2007 3:46 PM Straggler has not replied

  
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 43 of 77 (406312)
06-19-2007 4:43 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by Eilidh
06-19-2007 4:15 AM


Re: Marvellous!
All of our mouths are here right now. Why would we forgo the chance to have a thought out, reasoned debate where people can take time about their answers and provide direct links to reference material in favour of a staged event where everyone has to be going in with prepared material and any rebuttal needs to be instantaneous and off the cuff?
The proper forum for any sort of rational scientific debate is not an English Speaking Union floorshow, it isn't really an internet forum either, but it is a much better venue for one than a face to face public debate.
As others have suggested many creationist speakers favour face to face live debate because they can play to the crowd and employ the 'Gish Gallop', a list of purported problems with evolution which their opponent must then either allow to stand or spend considerable time of their own talking allotment rebutting.
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Eilidh, posted 06-19-2007 4:15 AM Eilidh has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 44 of 77 (406318)
06-19-2007 7:32 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by Eilidh
06-19-2007 4:15 AM


Re: Marvellous!
Eilidh
Just tell them to put their money where their mouth is and put up someone to
debate so we can see publicly who is making the blunders.
It seems to me that Mr McKay has just done a slight of hand to avoid having to actually face dealing with a reasoned out debate rather than a short sound bite on television wherein he can run out a constant barrage of questions rather than deal in detail with answers that require deep thought.
SO, if Mr McKay is clearly not using the medium of TV in order to further his own agendas of fame and ego driven banter, perhaps he might find the time to stop avoiding such sites as this one in order to deal with the real issues and see if he can avoid falling flat on his ass.
I challenge him in return to attempt a real debate here in front of the audience we have at our disposal as well.
My bet is that he does not have the cajones for such.
Edited by sidelined, : No reason given.

"Good displays of data help to reveal knowledge relevant to understanding mechanism, process and dynamics, cause and effect." We see the unthinkable and think the unseeable. "Visual representations of evidence should be governed by principles of reasoning about quantitative evidence. Clear and precise seeing becomes as one with clear and precise thinking."
Edward R. Tufte

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Eilidh, posted 06-19-2007 4:15 AM Eilidh has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 45 of 77 (406331)
06-19-2007 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by Eilidh
06-19-2007 4:15 AM


Re: Marvellous!
Eilidh writes:
Hi, Got an e-mail back from John, (Posted Beneath)
Just tell them to put their money where their mouth is and put up someone to
debate so we can see publicly who is making the blunders. I will be in
UK/Scotland in October/November so we can do it then if they get in soon. Let me
know what happens and thanks for your concern. If there is any thing you want to
ask go for it.
In Christ
John Mackay
Gee, Eilidh, I could make up all kinds of fake excuses like that my vacation is scheduled for August, not October/November, or that my vacation is structured around dropping my daughter off at college in the US, not Scotland, or that my passport wouldn't be ready, or that I can't afford airfare, or that the decent hotels have no vacancies, but you'd probably see through all that. The plain truth is that I don't dare face John MacKay publicly because I just know he'd make shreds of my evolutionary views and reveal me to be the sorry liar that I truly am. His clever response showed just how open he is to debate and how cowardly we evolutionists are. Good show!
If you want to ask John MacKay something (he did say, "go for it," after all), I suggest you ask why the convenience and advantages of debating in a public Internet forum with a permanent record and that is accessible to the entire world instead of just to a few in attendance at a public debate in Scotland is to be denigrated. Everyone could debate from wherever they happen to be, and the debate could start now, not October/November.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
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