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Author Topic:   Please - Some Impartial Advice Needed
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 168 of 240 (406239)
06-18-2007 6:37 AM
Reply to: Message 166 by Taz
06-17-2007 11:53 AM


Re: The mysteries of life
Your response is just so filled with misconceptions and wrongs it's actually funny.
You are officially pro-gay rights but you are personally against them,
Against them?
I am against no-one.
I am not in favor of the act of gay sex.
Now that you've supposedly changed from your previous skewed view,
It's not a skewed view, never was. You make me out to be a gay basher or something.
if one of your kids is gay are you going to accept him or are you still going to stigmatize him like before?
I have never stigmatized anyone, in my entire life, why should I start now?
Edited by riVeRraT, : ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by Taz, posted 06-17-2007 11:53 AM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by nator, posted 06-18-2007 7:48 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 179 by Taz, posted 06-18-2007 12:03 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 169 of 240 (406240)
06-18-2007 6:46 AM
Reply to: Message 167 by Phat
06-17-2007 4:27 PM


Re: Your pastor is way off in left field.
I don't see it (homosexual eroticism) as any more of a sin than lusting after a woman in your heart.
Yes, I have said it a thousand times, all sin is equal. And my sin is no better than the sins of a gay person.
Sin is not some grand evil aberration that sends people to Hell.
The jury remains out on that. Yes we are forgiven, but not if we know we are doing wrong, and keep doing it, without feeling sorry, or asking for forgiveness.
If a gay person feels like they are not doing wrong, and God hasn't come to them and confirmed that they are doing wrong, then it is between them and God.
The problem arises when we make our sins legal, then you cross a legal/moral/religious bridge.
Gay marriage is a catch 22 for religious people, and they don't even know it. If they are against it, then they are against their own right to be religious. They are also condemning, and judging, turning our nation into one giant church or something.
If we were truly a Christian nation, then we would be turning the other cheek, and loving our enemies. Let he who is without sin, throw the first stone.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Phat, posted 06-17-2007 4:27 PM Phat has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 176 of 240 (406257)
06-18-2007 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 172 by nator
06-18-2007 7:48 AM


Re: The mysteries of life
I don't care if people have gay sex, I have expressed that in other words, give it up already.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by nator, posted 06-18-2007 7:48 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by nator, posted 06-18-2007 3:52 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 177 of 240 (406258)
06-18-2007 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 175 by nator
06-18-2007 8:24 AM


Re: The mysteries of life
But if you didn't want to bring up competition, then why did you talk about the "unfair advantage" that gay couples would have?
Because it is, because it is not the same thing.
Why can't you simply admit that one of the reasons you feel uncomfortable with gay marriage is because they might show up the straights? I mean, clearly that's exactly a fear you have, otherwise you wouldn't have said it.
It's not a fear, it's a fact.
Like I said, it is what it is, stop trying to tie emotions to a purely logical statement.
Again, are you talking about sex as the "obvious" difference?
Again....no.
Shit you are stubborn.
Otherwise, there is no appreciable difference in marriages between straights and gays, other than, as you say, the possibility of a slightly easier time for same-sex couples.
So now it's you that has the fear?
We don't need to give it away if we just use less of it in the first place.
Other than oil, that is bullshit.
That statement makes no sense.
When was the last time you bought a pair of sneakers that were made in the US of materials produced entirely in the US?
I call that feeding the world. Thanks to US people around the globe have lobs and can feed their families.
No, not really. I am saying that it sounds selfish to have kids because of your own needs and wants.
I say it sounds even more selfish to not wants kids, and have everything for yourself. Do you think before you talk?
My overpopulation "worries" are backed up by copious amounts of evidence. You have offered no evidence in support of your reassurances that "everything is fine".
I've indicated that everything is fine here, in the US.
Plus if you have the resources to provide for your children, what is the problem with having them?
If I did not have those resources, then I would not have had them..
You have already said that you never even thought about overpopulation,
Of course I did, that is why I had a vasectomy after I had a few.
That's all I feel I can provide for, and that is all that is needed in the world. Why do we need 24 kids?
If I desire more kids, I will adopt, and that subject has been talked about here.
Opinions based upon data always supercede those that are pulled out of backsides.
pfffft, maybe you should really start living that way, if thats what you are going to preach.
Put this to rest already, you are making no sense, and barking up the wrong tree to boot.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by nator, posted 06-18-2007 8:24 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by nator, posted 06-18-2007 4:24 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 185 of 240 (406283)
06-18-2007 8:01 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by Taz
06-18-2007 12:03 PM


Re: The mysteries of life
So again, are you still going to stigmatize or openly disapprove if one of them is gay or are you going to accept him for who he is?
I'll say it again, I have never stigmatized anyone.
I'll say this again, I do not hate gay people, or disapprove of gay people.
I do not think homosexual sex is correct, and I do not understand it, perhaps I never will. I am open about it, with my friends and family, and would be with my son.
I am sure there are things that I do that my son would not approve of, that's just life.
Doesn't mean I would love him any less, or stigmatize him.
Schraf already made the point. You are beyond neutral. You disapprove,
Of what?
Jesus, you and nator are thick headed, perhaps worse than a fundie.
Before this point, you were against gay marriage in the state even though it had absolutely nothing to do with your marriage.
I was never "against" gay marriage.
I just never consider two humans of the same sex able to be married. It's like calling black-white, it just ain't. In order for it to be a marriage, it has to be man and woman. I still feel that way in the church, just not in the state.
The sad part is people like you always associate it with hate, and this or that. when it is none of the above. The world is round, not square, and no matter how hard you try, it won't be square.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by Taz, posted 06-18-2007 12:03 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by Taz, posted 06-18-2007 9:37 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 190 by nator, posted 06-19-2007 9:21 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 186 of 240 (406284)
06-18-2007 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by nator
06-18-2007 4:24 PM


Re: The mysteries of life
Huh? How on earth did you get anything like that from my words?
There is no difference in gay marriage and hetro marriage, except for how people have sex and the fact that gays might have an easier time of it.
I'm delighted that anyone might have an easier time in their marriages, for any reason.
I am done responding to you, if you haven't got it by now, then you never will.
But one question, why is it when you point out the differences between gay marriage and straight marriage, it is so different then when I do.
Are you even reading your own words?
In sweatshops. With no benefits. No unions. No democracy. No worker safety laws. No power to make anything better for themselves. For pennies a day in many cases. All so Nike can make incredible profits on a pair of Air Jordan's.
What, do you think the workers in China have rights like workers here in the US?
Way to drift off-topic. start another thread about it.
Your attitude seems to be "Hey, I got mine, every thing's hunky-dory here, right now, with my immediate family, and I don't really care what happens a couple hundred years down the road."
duh.
XXXXXXX
One of the reasons we have chosen to not have any natural children is because of the overpopulation problem. I also do not shop in WAL-MART, which gets the majority of it's products from companies that use questionable overseas labor practices and is a predatory business anyway.
Your not helping anyone with that attitude, go ahead, start a thread.
Stop wasting poor Taylor's time here.
You are the queen of dragging things off-topic, and no-one seems to do anything about it, just sad.
Edited by AdminPhat, : fixed quote

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by nator, posted 06-18-2007 4:24 PM nator has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 188 of 240 (406320)
06-19-2007 8:41 AM
Reply to: Message 187 by Taz
06-18-2007 9:37 PM


Re: The mysteries of life
Let me emphasize that I am not comparing you to racists. I am only pointing out that you are in the same line of thought. Your case is certainly not as intense or noticable as an outspoken wizard. But in the end, you both claim to not hate while the rest of us DO see what you are doing as hating.
That's all BS.
My not liking homosexual sex, or not understanding the attraction between same sex couples, it is only comparable to me not liking Ford over Chevy.
My dislike, and ignorance has nothing to do with the person. I have never been, or will never be prejudice, or a racist. And my line of thought is not comparable to it, so back off.
Even to this day, many interracial couples are stigmatized and harrassed everyday because of this same line of reasoning.
I know, I am one of them .
I am not saying that they ought to get married. What I am saying is that what other people decide to do with their lives have nothing to do with me.
Why are we going through this again, I support gay marriage.
It's that extra step you take to speak out against people's personal choices that gets me riled up.
Listen, forever marriage has been between a man and a woman. Homosexuals want to rewrite how it's always been, and try to do something that is "out of the norm", of course there is going to be some confusion.
I am not saying that they ought to get married. What I am saying is that what other people decide to do with their lives have nothing to do with me.
That is great that we can live like that today. But let's look at the evolution of it. Let's go back to say caveman times, where being part of a community was a necessity. How do you think these cavemen would have handled gay sex?
Do you really think that they would just grunted and said, well it has nothing to do with me?
Or would the strongest probably would have killed them off?
Now our intellect determines survival of the fittest, and we will evolve from that. So the question I asked molibol was,..what is next?
Are we going to start marrying gorillas as soon as they can consent?
But if you must know, the main reason why I am picking on you is because it frightens me to know you still hold your view (which I would label as hate) and also be so outspoken about it especially in your church.
I am outspoken in my church, because I defend gay peoples rights.
However, if you think that most biblical churches are going to start marrying gay people, then we might as well forget about religion all together.
People who believe in Jesus, have only the bible to follow His teachings, and Jesus was obviously against it. He was against all sexual morality.
But Jesus, and God, also love the sinner, but hate the sin.
I guess for now, that is my approach. I hate their sin, just like I hate my own.
Does that make me a racist, or a gay basher, or a hater of people?
I think I have made great gains in being an outspoken person in favor of gay marriage. I have even taken a chance at being not accepted in my church because of it. I have risked everything God has accomplished in me there. I have decided to put aside my own natural instinct, and made an intellectual choice about it.
Don't you see the difference between me not liking the act, over accepting the person?
No matter what we do, there are going to be people who will not accept it, or even interracial marriage. You would say it is because it is what we teach our kids, that causes that hate.
But what came first, the chicken or the egg? The hate or the teaching of hate? I say it is not only upbringing, but just natural instinct that fuels this "hate". Maybe it is just evolution at it's finest.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Taz, posted 06-18-2007 9:37 PM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by tudwell, posted 06-19-2007 11:41 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 189 of 240 (406321)
06-19-2007 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 187 by Taz
06-18-2007 9:37 PM


Re: The mysteries of life
Let me emphasize that I am not comparing you to racists. I am only pointing out that you are in the same line of thought. Your case is certainly not as intense or noticable as an outspoken wizard. But in the end, you both claim to not hate while the rest of us DO see what you are doing as hating.
That's all BS.
My not liking homosexual sex, or not understanding the attraction between same sex couples, it is only comparable to me not liking Ford over Chevy.
My dislike, and ignorance has nothing to do with the person. I have never been, or will never be prejudice, or a racist. And my line of thought is not comparable to it, so back off.
Even to this day, many interracial couples are stigmatized and harrassed everyday because of this same line of reasoning.
I know, I am one of them .
I am not saying that they ought to get married. What I am saying is that what other people decide to do with their lives have nothing to do with me.
Why are we going through this again, I support gay marriage.
It's that extra step you take to speak out against people's personal choices that gets me riled up.
Listen, forever marriage has been between a man and a woman. Homosexuals want to rewrite how it's always been, and try to do something that is "out of the norm", of course there is going to be some confusion.
I am not saying that they ought to get married. What I am saying is that what other people decide to do with their lives have nothing to do with me.
That is great that we can live like that today. But let's look at the evolution of it. Let's go back to say caveman times, where being part of a community was a necessity. How do you think these cavemen would have handled gay sex?
Do you really think that they would just grunted and said, well it has nothing to do with me?
Or would the strongest probably would have killed them off?
Now our intellect determines survival of the fittest, and we will evolve from that. So the question I asked molibol was,..what is next?
Are we going to start marrying gorillas as soon as they can consent?
But if you must know, the main reason why I am picking on you is because it frightens me to know you still hold your view (which I would label as hate) and also be so outspoken about it especially in your church.
I am outspoken in my church, because I defend gay peoples rights.
However, if you think that most biblical churches are going to start marrying gay people, then we might as well forget about religion all together.
People who believe in Jesus, have only the bible to follow His teachings, and Jesus was obviously against it. He was against all sexual morality.
But Jesus, and God, also love the sinner, but hate the sin.
I guess for now, that is my approach. I hate their sin, just like I hate my own.
Does that make me a racist, or a gay basher, or a hater of people?
I think I have made great gains in being an outspoken person in favor of gay marriage. I have even taken a chance at being not accepted in my church because of it. I have risked everything God has accomplished in me there. I have decided to put aside my own natural instinct, and made an intellectual choice about it.
Don't you see the difference between me not liking the act, over accepting the person?
No matter what we do, there are going to be people who will not accept it, or even interracial marriage. You would say it is because it is what we teach our kids, that causes that hate.
But what came first, the chicken or the egg? The hate or the teaching of hate? I say it is not only upbringing, but just natural instinct that fuels this "hate". Maybe it is just evolution at it's finest.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Taz, posted 06-18-2007 9:37 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 191 by Taz, posted 06-19-2007 11:25 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 199 of 240 (406382)
06-19-2007 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by nator
06-19-2007 9:21 AM


Re: The mysteries of life
Do you have any daughters, rat?
Why should I have her neutered?
Are you going to continue arguing the person?
Really I never met someone who was so interested in my life. You make me feel special, like the way a deer feels when being hunted.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by nator, posted 06-19-2007 9:21 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 202 by nator, posted 06-19-2007 11:02 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 200 of 240 (406384)
06-19-2007 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by Taz
06-19-2007 11:25 AM


Re: The mysteries of life
Oh wait, you don't see what I mean the same way that you don't know your breath stinks.
Maybe I know my breath stinks, but it only stinks to those who have a bad sniffer.
Perhaps you're not even aware of it, but you're going to let a few phrases slip out here and there.
Don't worry, phrases slip out all the time, about all subjects, including myself. That is a New Yorker for ya.
Because anything I say will always have a chance of letting the listener hear my personal bias against it.
Whatever, you have a right to be that way. Doesn't justify you telling me I have to be that way.
But then today we live in an age when everyone has an opinion on everything about everything. Can't blame you for having an opinion...
and an asshole.
I know it's my opinion, I've stated that many times.
It is also my opinion to be for gay marriage.
Yeah, and forever slavery was legal and encourage. What's your point?
Like I said, new ideas are going to be surrounded with confusion.
you're going to occasionally let it slip out that you think god hates it. Like I said before, young people, especially high schoolers, think it's the cool thing to hate people who are different. You're going to reinforce this immature hate with your preaching.
There you go again, this is getting exhausting. You are blending hating the sin, vs hating the sinner.
Every time I mention my feelings on it, I am sure to clarify that we are to love the sinner.
Of course I do. What I'm saying is that your not liking the act will definitely leak over the accepting the person side. Perhaps not intentionally.
Dude, I am surrounded by gay people, in my family, and my friends, I don't need your opinion on it, theirs is enough.
ou are still seeing your reaction to homosexuality as an ordianry, no-harm's-done, everyday reaction.
Um, no I don't.
I have explained that I do not understand it, and PERHAPS I never will. Can you blame me for that?
In other words, that means I am still learning.
Anyway, I'm done talking about this. You can continue whatever you are doing. I guess sometimes you just can't convince the person that his breath stinks if he insists that the smell is pleasant.
Stinky breath is subjective anyway.
{ABE}
I also think you need to go back a read my posts again. You make to many false accusations, a typical debating tactic.
I have stated that for me, I consider that homosexual sex is a sin, and the bible also implies the same thing.
My advice to taylor was for him to seek God, and find out for himself. If taylor thinks in his heart that he is not sinning, then that is between him and God, not me and him.
I don't have a problem with him being gay.
Edited by riVeRraT, : abe

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by Taz, posted 06-19-2007 11:25 AM Taz has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 201 of 240 (406386)
06-19-2007 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by tudwell
06-19-2007 11:41 AM


Re: The mysteries of life
lmao, just got real bad visuals.
We don't even know if cavemen had sex for just pleasure anyway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by tudwell, posted 06-19-2007 11:41 AM tudwell has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 203 of 240 (406458)
06-20-2007 8:23 AM
Reply to: Message 202 by nator
06-19-2007 11:02 PM


Re: The mysteries of life
I have a daughter, and when I use the word gay, or homosexual, I am referring to both sex's.
At one point in time, I could look at lesbian's and be turned on (if they were good looking) but now the reality of it is that those women,(true lesbians) usually hate men, and have no interest in me, or any other guy, which is a turn-off to me. Or they are experimenting women, who are not interested in monogamy, another turn-off.
Sex is great, but true love is better.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by nator, posted 06-19-2007 11:02 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 204 by Rahvin, posted 06-20-2007 8:53 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 205 by nator, posted 06-20-2007 5:54 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 206 of 240 (406521)
06-20-2007 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by Rahvin
06-20-2007 8:53 AM


Re: The mysteries of life
, your approval or disapproval is directly tied to your own sexual arousal.
My response was directly related to the question of whether looking at two women turn me on, which nator asked earlier.
So yes, it is directly related to my own sexual arousal.
And somehow true love is impossible if you're gay? I'm pretty sure being in a loving, monogamous relationship was why many gays want to get married in the first place.
That has nothing to do with what I said.
I never claimed that gays don't love each other. They must because they want to get married, and I support that.
Stop with your bullshit.
If you honestly believe that a basic characteristic of a person like sexual orientation is evil, and will send them to Hell,
You fucking moron, please point out where I said that.
I sin, and I ain't going to hell, why would a gay person? Just fucking amazing!
I swear, I am the only one in the world who gets it!
Edited by AdminPhat, : spellcheck

This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by Rahvin, posted 06-20-2007 8:53 AM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 211 by Rahvin, posted 06-21-2007 12:47 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 214 by AdminNem, posted 06-21-2007 11:56 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 207 of 240 (406522)
06-20-2007 10:26 PM
Reply to: Message 205 by nator
06-20-2007 5:54 PM


Re: The mysteries of life
I don't think so.
I think you pretty much only think of males when the word "gay" is used.
I don't care what you think, I've already explained where I am coming from. Accept it, or live in a lie.
Lesbians don't hate men,
Sexually they do, and that is what I was talking about. Stop confusing love with sex.
Seriously, rat, where do you get this shit?
When you make it up.
They don't have a sexual interest in you, or any man, no.
Oh so now you do get it?
Shit, make=up your mind.
You have set a record for contradicting yourself this thread, and setting double standards.
Yeah. True love between two men, or two women, or a woman and a man, is way better than just sex.
No shit, that is why I mentioned it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by nator, posted 06-20-2007 5:54 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 208 by Taz, posted 06-20-2007 10:31 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 212 by nator, posted 06-21-2007 9:02 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 209 of 240 (406530)
06-20-2007 11:14 PM
Reply to: Message 208 by Taz
06-20-2007 10:31 PM


Re: The mysteries of life
So if you see two guys kissing, you hate that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by Taz, posted 06-20-2007 10:31 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 210 by Taz, posted 06-20-2007 11:32 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
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