Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 63 (9072 total)
72 online now:
Minnemooseus (Adminnemooseus) (1 member, 71 visitors)
Newest Member: FossilDiscovery
Post Volume: Total: 893,150 Year: 4,262/6,534 Month: 476/900 Week: 0/182 Day: 0/28 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   100 Categories of Evidence Against Noah’s Flood
Someone who cares
Member (Idle past 4984 days)
Posts: 192
Joined: 06-06-2006


Message 2 of 11 (400451)
05-14-2007 12:30 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by anglagard
05-12-2007 1:16 AM


Here goes...
I see this topic has been made already, so might as well start while you get the information on my sources for our other debate.

quote:
In fact, I would say that virtually every geologic formation, virtually every rock, is evidence against Noah’s flood.

Whoa! I would be careful in making such large claims if I were you! In fact, you just might have to take it back by the time we're done with this debate! :) (Note: I'll always be ready to accept it if you do intend on taking your words back, and I won't criticize you. My goal is to show you the truth, and I do not want to intimidate you, so if you feel like saying something at any time during this debate, don't be afraid to do so.)

quote:
However, I am far from expert due to both time and content so I’m sure this list can be improved.

Yes! I'm sure we could improve it, know how? We'll just pick off point by point until the list is empty! That would be closer to the truth than what it currently is...

So let me start:

Point 1: Simple, first the "fountains of the deep", presumably volcanoes(yes, magma has lots of water), break open. This explosion bursts through the rock and tilts it up. Then the great force of the first flood waters rips through the area shawing off this tilted rock, and there you have it- the great "angular unconformity"! Source: http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/cfol/ch3-grand-canyon.asp

Point 2: Radiometric dating is very unreliable because it is based on many unproved and unprovable assumptions such as: the radioactive conditions were always the same, the "half life" of elements is constant, products of decay were not originally in the rock that is being dated, etc. C-14 dating is unreliable also because the level of C-14 in the atmosphere is not constant, and it is unfit for dating anything beyond 3,000 years old. Source: The Rise of the Evolution Fraud by Malcolm Bowden.

Point 3: First off, natural settling action can very well account for the fossil distribution. (Refer to my essay located here- http://www.freewebs.com/noevolutionguy/ )

Second, there are many cases where the fossils are not found where evolution says they should be. A handful of specific examples should suit:

1)18" long human footprints with normal sized footprints and DINOSAUR footprints found in Cretaceous mud in the bed of the Paluxy River, Texas. Source: The Rise of the Evolution Fraud by Malcolm Bowden

2) A complete amphibian, hynerpeton bassetti was found in Upper Devonian rocks said to be 35-363 million years in Catskill Formation in Pennsylvania. This amphibian is "older" than Ichthyostega, Acauthostega, and Tulerpeton! Older than those thought to be the oldest amphibians- yet fully formed limbs and other parts! Source: E.B. Daeschler, Science 265:639-642 (1994) in Evolution: The Fossils STILL Say No! by Duane T. Gish, pg.91-92.

3)Louis Leakey found remains of a circular stone habitation hut at the bottom of Bed I. (Source: Kelso, Physical Anthropology, pg. 221; M.D. Leakey, Olduvai Gorge, Vol.3, pg.24) But the only ones capable of making such huts are homo sapiens, thus, this find below Australopithecus, Homo habilis, and Homo erectus invalidates them! Source:E.B. Daeschler, Science 265:639-642 (1994) in Evolution: The Fossils STILL Say No! by Duane T. Gish, pg.271.

4)Modern human fossils in layers where they aren't supposed to be in yet according to evolution, such as: 1)completely fossilized Calaveras skull in Pliocene (Source: Ape-men- Fact or Fallacy? by Malcolm Bowden pg.76-77) 2)Castenedolo skull in Pliocene (Source: Same but pg.78-79) 3)Olmo skull found with Pleistocene fossils (Source: Same but pg.80) 4)Foxhall jaw in Pliocene, stone tools found below it (Source: Same pg.80) 5)Galley Hill skeleton of a man in Middle Pliestocene (Source: Same but pg.80-83) 6) Clichy Skeleton in Middle Pliestocene (Source: Same but pg.86) 7)Abbeville jaw in early Pliestocene (Source: Same but pg.86-87) 8)Natchez pelvis in lower Pleistocene (Source: Same but pg.87)

And the list could go on and on...

As for the lack of flowers and grasses in Cambrian, I do believe those items do not fossilize quite well...

Point 4: Varves can form more than one pair in a year depending upon the conditions. There are several examples of where multiple layers were laid in a year here: http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v19/i3/greenriver.asp So it is possible if there were the right conditions to lay all those layers.
As for the pollen, I don't think it would be difficult for the flood waters to capture various pollens and deposit them with the layers of sediments as it goes...

Point 5: Whoa! We (as Creationists who believe in the Flood) don't see a difference in the various layers like evolutionists do. We do not ascribe the various layers different ages, because we believe they were mostly laid down in Flood. The only reason we would use terms like "Precambrian" is to refute evolutionist claims using thier "reasoning". Thus this point is invalid as it attacks a strawman, we Creationists who believe in the Flood do not recognize the various "layers" as evolutionists do.

Have to go, but I hope you see how I have been able to incorporate more facts from my newly gained knowledge from books I read recently. I will probably be ready for a new essay in a year.

Peace.


"If you’re living like there is no God you’d better be right!" - Unknown

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by anglagard, posted 05-12-2007 1:16 AM anglagard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by anglagard, posted 05-27-2007 5:45 AM Someone who cares has replied

Someone who cares
Member (Idle past 4984 days)
Posts: 192
Joined: 06-06-2006


Message 4 of 11 (405547)
06-13-2007 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by anglagard
05-27-2007 5:45 AM


Re: Here goes...
I have not forgotten this either, hope to get more to it soon.

quote:
however your insistence concerning having to debate entire websites such as AIG requires much personal effort.

Whoa! Who said all of AIG? Just the facts I quote/paraphrase/summarize...

But anyway, how are we going to do this? Am I going to go through all of the points and then you respond, or are we going to do it as it comes along, I reply to one point and you reply to that?


"If you’re living like there is no God you’d better be right!" - Unknown

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by anglagard, posted 05-27-2007 5:45 AM anglagard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by anglagard, posted 06-13-2007 9:40 PM Someone who cares has replied

Someone who cares
Member (Idle past 4984 days)
Posts: 192
Joined: 06-06-2006


Message 5 of 11 (405552)
06-13-2007 4:18 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by anglagard
05-12-2007 1:16 AM


Moving right along...
Point 6: I don't exactly understand what you're saying, but let me try. Are you asking how there can be layers of sediments between lava flows? If that's what it is, simple: The Flood would cause many volcanoes to burst, and it would also move sediments as it goes. A lava flow occurs, then the Flood could lay sediments on top of that, and this cycle could be repeated on and on.

Point 7: Some Creationists believe that after the Flood there was an ice age or ages, and this would allow for the ice caps to reform.

Point 8: To answer this I would need more information on the methods used and what exactly they are looking for to find evidence of the Flood, perhaps you could elaborate. But in the meantime, I can answer a question with a question, how come the rock strata provide evidence of the Flood catastrophe like trees and whales going through multiple layers and animals found in the state of fear, but not provide evidence of gradual evolution, i.e. no transitional fossils which specifically link two groups of animals with a transitional animal.

Point 9: The Flood could very well sort the fossils according to weight, strength, density, ability to swim, ability to run to higher ground, etc. as my essay demonstrates. Same goes for the grain sizes, the Flood could very well sort them out according to their characteristics like shape, size, weight, and density, etc. As for the thicknesses of the layers, the Flood would easily be able to make different thicknesses, it made the valleys and mountains! In one place it could be calmer and settle sediments in an area, in another it could be breaking up the rocks and forming holes.

Point 10: Paleomagnetism is, to the contrary of what you said, proof for the Flood! What could have caused the poles to wander and reverse directions other that a worldwide catastrophe! Only the Flood could have the power to do this.

You say it is correlated with radioisotope dating, well, radioisotope dating is flawed! I am thinking about writing an essay and this subject would be discussed there in detail, but for now just a few points from John Woodmorappe's 'The Mythology of Modern Dating Methods, 1999, Institute for Creation Research:

*The fission decay constant of 238U is still not known precisely (pg.17).

*The huge ages of K-Ar can be easily explained by the Flood, because when the Flood happened, it trapped a lot of magma, and this trapped the great amounts of argon, so the rocks would appear older than they are! (pg.18).

*"The U-Pb and Rb-Sr systems are known to be highly susceptible to resetting by hydrothermal, diagenetic and metamorphic processes."(Toulkeridis, T., 1998. 'Sm-Nd, Rb-Sr, and Pb-Pb dating of silicic carbonates from the early Archaean Barberton Greenstone Belt, South Africa.' Precambrian Research 92:138)

*"Natural zircon typically displays an inconsistency of age values obtained on the basis of the 206Pb/238U, 207Pb/235U, and 207Pb/206Pb isotopic ratios." (Levchenkov, O. A., 1998. 'Kinetics of Pb and U loss from metamict zircon under different P-T-X conditions.' Geochemistry International 36(11):1006)

*"Unfortunately, the U-Pb and Th-Pb systems rarely stay closed in silicate rocks." (Dickin, A.P. 1997. Radiogenic Isotope Geology(updated paper-back edition). U.K., New York: Cambridge University Press. Pg.105)

*Xenocrysts can have a very high content of argon and this can skew the K-Ar dates. (pg.49)

*The list could go on and on...

Concerning plate tectonics, "Nearly all these cracks are in the ocean. Obviously, seawater ought to be pouring down through these cracks, producing boiling water and massive volcanic action! If a plate bent down on one end, the other end would rise miles into the air, and the resultant rush of water downward would produce waves which would inundate entire continents." http://www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/Encyclopedia/19plat01.htm#Plate%20Tectonics

Point 11: What does someone's noticing of it have to do with it, they would be dying at the same time, all but Noah and his family.

Point 12: What methods where used to calculate this rate? And is it possible that the Flood plus a possible ice age or ages could affect this rate?


"If you’re living like there is no God you’d better be right!" - Unknown

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by anglagard, posted 05-12-2007 1:16 AM anglagard has taken no action

Someone who cares
Member (Idle past 4984 days)
Posts: 192
Joined: 06-06-2006


Message 7 of 11 (406433)
06-19-2007 11:48 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by anglagard
06-13-2007 9:40 PM


Re: Here goes...
Yes, I would like to do other things more exciting to me than this, but I will try to visit every once in a while... I've taken up another great debate with RAZD about his Age Old Correlations(-it's a part of his debate with Murky Water labeled something like -...of the Great Debate") so my posting may seem rare here.

Peace.


"If you’re living like there is no God you’d better be right!" - Unknown

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by anglagard, posted 06-13-2007 9:40 PM anglagard has taken no action

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.1
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2022