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Author Topic:   Evolution impossible as cannot apply meaning to code
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1959 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 69 of 107 (406317)
06-19-2007 7:30 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Doddy
06-06-2007 9:06 PM


Concerning someone's statement that what is not repeatable is not science it was replied:
Tell that to a forensic scientist trying to investigate a murder scene.
If you believe that applying logic to ascertain if a death has been caused by murderer's design, is a science, do you then also believe that detecting intelligent design in biological systems is a science?
If not why is investigating to detect evidence of death by design is science but investigating to detect evidence of life by design not a science?
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Doddy, posted 06-06-2007 9:06 PM Doddy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by crashfrog, posted 06-19-2007 9:26 AM jaywill has not replied
 Message 71 by Modulous, posted 06-19-2007 9:30 AM jaywill has replied
 Message 72 by dwise1, posted 06-19-2007 2:41 PM jaywill has not replied
 Message 73 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-19-2007 4:35 PM jaywill has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1959 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 74 of 107 (406405)
06-19-2007 7:59 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Modulous
06-19-2007 9:30 AM


Re: Processes
Forensic science isn't just about ascertaining if a death has been caused by design. It is about ascertaining exactly how a person died, whether it was murder or accident.
So its scope is larger than what my question implies. That's OK with me. I don't think that changes the issue for me.
However, detecting intelligent design in biological systems can be a scientific process.
I take this sentence to mean (if not a typo) that you don't deny that ID research is science.
The point is that no intelligent design has been scientifically detected in biological systems.
That sounds debatable. That sounds arguable. But let's say I take your statement at face value. So ID should give up because of this?
Should SETI also give up because no intelligent signals have yet been detected from outer space? Are you going to tell students of science who are interested in ID that they are wasting their time? Or should some continue to explore the possibilities?
If we were doing it scientifically (as in forensic science) we'd have to describe a process that would lead to the final result (the evidence). So far the ID movement, which you allude to, has been unable to describe a feasable and repeatable process that could interact in a predictable fashion to the development of life.
This is a little allusive to me being a laymen. Rather than saying "Yes Sir. Whatever you say." I'll try to look more into this "feasability" / "repeatability" matter.
I'm not sure how "repeatable" the Big Bang event is. Yet it is agreed upon by many as a valid scientific theory.
Until they describe a natural process then what they do isn't science.
The natural process by which the Big Bang occured is described in detail?
Has the natural process which keeps a star burning been completely described in total? Does the shortage of a complete description of star formation make astro physics not a science?
I have asked MIT science students to describe exactly the natural process by which one piece of magnetized metal comes together with another piece of magnetized metal. They described proximities and distances and formulas to predict when the attraction will take place.
Then I pressed them further as to why these two pieces of metal move towards each other. I was told that on a "low level" they do not yet know why it happens.
Does that make research into electro magnetism not a science because the natural process of magnetism is not yet completely described?
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Modulous, posted 06-19-2007 9:30 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by Percy, posted 06-19-2007 10:09 PM jaywill has not replied
 Message 76 by crashfrog, posted 06-19-2007 11:00 PM jaywill has replied
 Message 77 by Wounded King, posted 06-20-2007 5:02 AM jaywill has replied
 Message 83 by Modulous, posted 06-22-2007 9:35 AM jaywill has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1959 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 78 of 107 (406751)
06-22-2007 7:18 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by crashfrog
06-19-2007 11:00 PM


Re: Processes
Thanks for the Link. Quoted from link provided above:
Speculations on the origin
It has been speculated that interstellar scintillation of a weaker continuous signal ” similar, in effect, to atmospheric twinkling”could be a possible explanation, although this still would not exclude the possibility of the signal being artificial in its nature. However, even by using the significantly more sensitive Very Large Array, such a signal could not be detected, and the probability that a signal below the Very Large Array level could be detected by the Big Ear radio telescope due to interstellar scintillation is low.[4] Other speculations include a rotating lighthouse-like source or a signal sweeping in frequency.
Ehman has stated his doubts that the signal is of intelligent extraterrestrial origin: "We should have seen it again when we looked for it 50 times. Something suggests it was an Earth-sourced signal that simply got reflected off a piece of space debris."[6]
He later recanted his skepticism somewhat after further research scientifically relegated an Earth-bound signal to be astronomically unlikely, due to the requirements of a space-borne reflector being bound to certain unrealistic requirements to sufficiently explain the nature of the signal. Also, the 1420 MHz signal is problematic in itself in that it is "protected spectrum" or bandwidth in which terrestrial transmitters are forbidden to transmit. In his most recent writings, Ehman resists "drawing vast conclusions from half-vast data."
Are you willing to allow ID researches the same freedom to speculate and possibly alter their opinions?
If SETI researchers have this freedom why do you want to nip ID in the bud before they have opportunity to speculate pro and con?
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by crashfrog, posted 06-19-2007 11:00 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
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jaywill
Member (Idle past 1959 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 79 of 107 (406755)
06-22-2007 7:38 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by Wounded King
06-20-2007 5:02 AM


Re: Processes
In those instances where ID researchers have approached the issue scientifically, such as in Behe and Snoke's published research on the evolution of simple structral motifs (2004), what they have found has given no support at all to ID hypotheses.
I would first want to know what was the stated purpose of the authors of the specific article to which you refer?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Wounded King, posted 06-20-2007 5:02 AM Wounded King has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Wounded King, posted 06-22-2007 8:30 AM jaywill has not replied

  
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