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Author | Topic: The Unacknowledged Accuracy of Genesis 1 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
rakaz Junior Member (Idle past 6141 days) Posts: 15 From: The Netherlands Joined: |
quote:quote: This does not help your argument. If Jacob was both 37 and still a boy, you cannot argue that the story is less cruel because Jacob was already 37 years old. It's still as cruel as before because Jacob was a boy at the time.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: So please produce these alleged allusions.
quote: Or so you say. However if the calendar was in the law the Jews would still be using it. But they don't use the calendar you were talking about. In fact we've yet to see any indivation that this calendar actually exists. All you say is that it's somewhere in Genesis. If it was there you should have been able to find it by now. All you have to do is look.
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Equinox Member (Idle past 5170 days) Posts: 329 From: Michigan Joined: |
IAJ wrote:
The scrolls are regarded the same as today, with no variation in its narratives from the Septuagint or the current OT. I have many links which say this. The discrepencies are allocated to alphabet styles and some differences of sylables, and writings style of scribes, etc. If there were any real differences, there would have been a major consequence. OK, it looks like I was wrong - or he’s decided to keep pretending to be really this misled. IJ, there are of course tons of links that say that - I’ve seen them too. They are part of this whole “fundamentalist Christianity” scam that is so effective in getting people to keep paying their tithe. Look, I have the DSS on my desk - I’ve looked over them, and the translators themselves comment on the removed verses, added verses, reworded verses, and on and on. For the book of psalms by itself - the scrolls have added a half dozen “new” psalms, have significantly reworded others, and even beyond that have rearranged them to be in a new order. Other books are like that too. If you don’t believe me, you don’t have to take my word for it, you can just get them yourself and have them to compare whenever you like. The upshot is that you’ve been lied to (repeatedly it seems), and now are repeating all kinds of stuff that is just plain silly, and only makes you look like an idiot. It really makes me mad to see a person so deluded - you didn’t deserve to be so messed up, what they’ve done to you is, in my book, simply child abuse. It’s amazing, reading your posts, to think that some people deny that religion hurts people. You can start your escape by checking the DSS yourself. Here they are:
http://www.amazon.com/Dead-Sea-Scrolls-Bible-Translated... Good luck, you are in my thoughts- Edited by AdminAsgara, : Do you think we can all learn to shorten our long URLs?
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
LOL - my sympathies. Its amazing how distorted the impression of the OT is. They even forget proper grammar in concluding two creation stories! I am too old to remember proper grammer. I actually called it The Literal Genesis acccount of creation. I used the KJV Bible only. And I stand corrected there is only one creation and then the seven days of Moses or the re-creation of certain things (or whatever you would prefer to call it), in Genesis 1:2-Genesis 2:3. "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3696 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: There's only one kind.
quote: Until science can show otherwise, there is no alternative to Creationism. And thread carefully - the OT has never been disproven to date, and over 50% of all its narratives have been proven. Any alternative considered, must be at least greater than the result, and at least Genesis satisfies with an accurate description of a Creator who is greater than his creation. The latter premise is non-negotiable - so let's see what those scientists in white come up with, and lets hope they have good imaginations. You have to start being objective. Genesis, a 3,500 year old ancient document, containing 100s of 1000s of stats throughout its passages - is proving to be one tough cooky. And you have'nt begun to consider the extent of vindication, as opposed very few stand out items. Consider this, because in its own way it does align with science:All the laws the world follows is from the OT - exclusively; not a single law comes from any other religion, philosophy or advancement. Think about it.
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Vacate Member (Idle past 4628 days) Posts: 565 Joined: |
IamJoseph writes: the OT has never been disproven to date, and over 50% of all its narratives have been proven. so let's see what those scientists in white come up with, and lets hope they have good imaginations. So how would you decide what to believe regarding the results of the scientists? Who was it that proved 50% of the OT narratives? The same people who you reject; believing that their evidence as imagination.
You have to start being objective. I am still trying to figure out how you get proof without science, yet reject any and all science that differs from the biblical interpretations that you insist science has proven.
not a single law comes from any other religion, philosophy or advancement. Think about it. In Baltimore, Maryland, it is not legal to take a lion to the movies In Greene, New York, During a concert, it is illegal to eat peanuts and walk backwards on the sidewalks *copy/pasted from here*
No webpage found at provided URL: http://tjshome.com/dumblaws.php Edited by Vacate, : Added Link
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 762 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
All the laws the world follows is from the OT - exclusively; not a single law comes from any other religion, philosophy or advancement. Think about it. You might pause for a second and think about it yourself. Like the next time you exceed 25 mph in a school zone, or drive with glasspacks instead of standard mufflers. Or quote from a website without attribution. Or possess cocaine. Wow. Just freakin' wow. "The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD
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Admin Director Posts: 13038 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
Hi IamJoseph!
When you get a chance could you give the Forum Guidelines a look? Particularly this one:
If you think it would be helpful I'd be glad to explain the rationale behind this rule. Thanks for participating at EvC Forum!
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Like I said before; it is nonsensical to talk about proving or disproving the existence of God. Science cannot prove it either way, because science is about observations and something that cannot be observed by definition falls outside of the realm of science. Personally I also feel it falls outside of the realm of common sense, but that is a different story altogether. You addressed what Genesis 1:1 says. Fine You totally ignored what science says about the same subject. What you believe happened is just as preposterous to me an is Genesis 1:1 to you. I believe God did it. You believe it just happened, and you know for a fact it did because we are here presenting different views about what happened. I believe Genesis 1:1, Genesis 2:4-Genesis 4:26 gives a complete and accurate account of the day the Lord God made the earth and the heavens. "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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rakaz Junior Member (Idle past 6141 days) Posts: 15 From: The Netherlands Joined: |
quote: In The Netherlands we have laws that permit abortion and euthanasia. Please open up your Bible and specify the name of the book and the numbers of the verses that these laws are based on. Or alternatively retract your claim.
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rakaz Junior Member (Idle past 6141 days) Posts: 15 From: The Netherlands Joined: |
quote: First of all, I do not believe Genesis 1:1 is preposterous. I think it is highly unlikely and that it defies common sense to believe in something so unlikely. Even though I am very sceptical I am willing to keep an open mind and will change my position if somebody will present real proof that a God exists and created life. It would be preposterous of me to hold to a believe that is proven to be false. Secondly I did not ignore what science says about the subject. It is simply irrelevant to the discussion. Science is by definition based on evidence. Faith lacks evidence by definition. The logical conclusion is that the theory proposed by science is more likely, simply because any evidence is better than no evidence at all.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
You guys are building towers of babel in mid air. The scrolls are regarded the same as today, with no variation in its narratives from the Septuagint or the current OT. I have many links which say this. The discrepencies are allocated to alphabet styles and some differences of sylables, and writings style of scribes, etc. If there were any real differences, there would have been a major consequence. * sigh * There was.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
Until science can show otherwise, there is no alternative to Creationism. First, science has shown otherwise; literal Genesis creationism has been pretty much disproven and isn't even an alternative anymore. -
And thread carefully - the OT has never been disproven to date, and over 50% of all its narratives have been proven. I doubt that. The literal Genesis creation account and the literal account of the Flood has been disproven by geology; the account of the Exodus has been disproven by archeaology. The other accounts concerning famous patriarchs, judges, and kings may or may not have occurred, but they certainly have not been proven, either. -
You have to start being objective. Genesis, a 3,500 year old ancient document, containing 100s of 1000s of stats throughout its passages - is proving to be one tough cooky. Actually, it's the stubborness of the creationists and literalists that are proving to be tough cookies. But that is up to them -- people will believe what they will believe -- nothing I can do about it. All I can do is point out their errors -- if they don't want to listen, then there's nothing much else I can do. -
not a single law comes from any other religion, philosophy or advancement. Heh. Of course, the Egyptians, Mesopotamians, Indians, Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, Vietnamese, Aztecs, Incas, and so forth had laws long before they ever heard of Moses (and, in some of these cases, long before even Abraham was even born, assuming there even was an Abraham). Q: If science doesn't know where this comes from, then couldn't it be God's doing? A: The only difference between that kind of thinking and the stereotype of the savage who thinks the Great White Hunter is a God because he doesn't know how the hunter's cigarette lighter works is that the savage has an excuse for his ignorance. -- jhuger
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Vacate Member (Idle past 4628 days) Posts: 565 Joined: |
IamJoseph writes: *snip* according to genesis and my understandinging of it, neanderthal or any other life form, and human derivitive from them, has no impact here. Whether neaderthal constitutes a prototype of modern humans, or of another life form (a certain ape?), does not negate or impact, because genesis, which is minimilist *snip* *emphasis is mine This is just a dodge of the issue. You claim that the definition of "Kind" has no impact merely because genesis is minimilist. Yet you use it as a method of disproving evolution?
Whether neaderthal falls with animal and humans, or mammals and animals - is a separate issue. One that you brought up, (nighttrain asked for clarification in message 216) and I requested that you create another thread to specifically address. What is the IamJoseph definition of "kind", in such that it shows the Theory of Evolution to be incorrect?
But genesis is correct in that it is speaking of a life form with speech - it is correct from this point and premise. But not from any other. Do you often select what information to include in your beliefs? How do you decide what information to deny/ignore/misrepresent? In message 214 you said:
it is possible that all animals are one specie (or 'kind') according to genesis, but not so with darwin. I am unsure of this distinction, while one reading makes genesis correct, with the potential to make darwin's conclusion as incorrect So your position regarding "kind" is that it could mean all of biology, kingdom, class, species or {speaks/does not speak}. Depending on what one you decide to choose at any given moment you can immediatly conclue that Darwin is incorrect. This is hardly a strong case against Evolution, and I ask again if you would be willing to create a new thread to clarify your definition of "kind" so you can once and for all put this silly Theory of Evolution to rest?
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
it is possible that all animals are one specie (or 'kind') according to genesis, but not so with darwin. In a perverse way, I find myself enjoying this. Do go on.
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