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Member (Idle past 6075 days) Posts: 65 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Were Adam and Eve homo sapiens? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Doddy Member (Idle past 5910 days) Posts: 563 From: Brisbane, Australia Joined: |
IamJoseph writes: Certainly. There are also, pyramids, wars, nations, kings and historical events. We know of no 'NAME' of any human prior to the genesis datings - in fact no history per se - and this is not because of no writings. I find it hard to believe that a pyramid could be built without writing, let alone mathematics and geometry. History is impossible to transmit to us without writing. So these two are also indicators of speech + writing, rather than just speech. Wars, kings and nations are much better indicators as they could probably occur without much writing, but without history, these may not leave much trace. What about fossil anatomy, as the above posters and myself have alluded to?
IamJoseph writes:
Yep. Speech is biological, like I said.
Speech is an inherent intergrated attribute with humans. I meant, parents to not inculcate it: it cannot be thought to non-humans. IamJoseph writes:
On the contrary. Diseases would account for a large fraction of the population. One need only look at the family history of a pre-Industrial Age figure, say Marie Antoinette, to learn of this (and this is given some idea of health and care of children, and the fairly good diet of the royal family). Deseases were also less prevalent then. But even if all those items are factored in, they'd account for a small fraction of the population: 120K years would still amount to 1000s of trillions. Marie Antoinette bore four children. Marie-Thérse-Charlotte, Louis-Joseph, Louis-Charles, Sophie-Béatrix. Louis-Joseph and Louis-Charles both died in childhood of tuberculosis, Sophie-Beatrix died a few days after childbirth. If this can happen to the royal family, what must life have been like for the commoners, who also had to deal with famine in addition to poor hygiene? And this is in the age of agriculture. Imagine how bad it would have been in 10,000BC! Even in the Middle Ages, living to 40 would have been considered a long life. I'm sure many, many died before they made it to 20.
IamJoseph writes: Let the attribute of speech replace electricity here? When reproductive success was electricity, the switch was technology (writing, for example). If speech is the electricity, what would you say the 'switch' would be? Contributors needed for the following articles: Pleiotropy, Metabolism, Promoter, Invertebrate, Meiosis, DNA, Transcription, Chromosome, Tetrapod, Phenotype, Messenger RNA, Mammals, Appendix , Variation, Selection, Gene, Gametogenesis, Homo erectus and others. Registration not needed, but if desired, register here!
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3669 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Out of my window it goes, crashing to ground zero with a mighty THUD! Its a big con - not that there are no fossil relics found - but the conclusion construed by it. IMHO, fossil and dna are secondary back-ups, once the issue is established; while on their own,without hard-copy and actual proof - it is a con or a great error. This is also the reason I reject 60K year aboloriginals based solely on alledged cave marks.
quote: We're talking about 100K years ago - before the word 'pollution' was invented.
quote: Yes, but the reverse applies pre-4500 years.
quote: Teaching; encouaging; prompting. Its akin to a bird teaching its offspring to attempt the first flight - an inherent attribute with birds.
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Doddy Member (Idle past 5910 days) Posts: 563 From: Brisbane, Australia Joined: |
IamJoseph writes:
Yes, well, I could take you to task with this, but perhaps this belongs in another thread. It is a complex issue.
Out of my window it goes, crashing to ground zero with a mighty THUD! Its a big con - not that there are no fossil relics found - but the conclusion construed by it. IMHO, fossil and dna are secondary back-ups, once the issue is established; while on their own,without hard-copy and actual proof - it is a con or a great error. This is also the reason I reject 60K year aboloriginals based solely on alledged cave marks.IamJoseph writes:
But not before death, disease, famine, war and accidents were invented. It is true that the polluted living conditions of the Middle Ages weren't healthy, but that was more than offset by the advances in agriculture and health care that came along with civilisation.
We're talking about 100K years ago - before the word 'pollution' was invented. IamJoseph writes:
Nonsense. At least in the Middle Ages, people had farms that (usually) supplied them with food, and surgeons that could set broken bones (though they were fairly useless at preventing or curing infections). Yes, but the reverse applies pre-4500 years. Take, as an example of how we would have lived 10,000 years ago, the current natives of New Guinea and Africa, mostly untouched by westerners. They don't live long healthy lives due to the lack of pollution. Why would you think cavemen would reproduce faster than medieval citizens?
IamJoseph writes:
But who would be teaching speech to humanity? Teaching; encouaging; prompting. Its akin to a bird teaching its offspring to attempt the first flight - an inherent attribute with birds. Contributors needed for the following articles: Pleiotropy, Metabolism, Promoter, Invertebrate, Meiosis, DNA, Transcription, Chromosome, Tetrapod, Phenotype, Messenger RNA, Mammals, Appendix , Variation, Selection, Gene, Gametogenesis, Homo erectus and others. Registration not needed, but if desired, register here!
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3669 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Most of the deseases came with interaction between new groupings, and when an immunity had not been developed. Before this time, the planet was unpolluted, and people lived to greater lifespans. Wars and other deaths are common factors for all spacetimes. The bigger lifespans of biblical figures is true - people never ventured out of their communites and we have a fully intergrated calenderised diary of their lifespan datings, with no motive to fake or implement such a math vindicated historical account.
quote: Like all other pivotal factors which sustain the universe and this planet, speech is a bestowed phenomenon. It never emerged via coos and hisses, as is thought: speech arrived suddenly and in an already advanced state - in oral form first - independently in all areas of the planet. This is why million year old life forms never attained speech despite evolution, adaptation and every other facility available. Speech is a higher, exclusive form of communication unique to humans - as is a superior attribute of maths: neither are evolutionary results. Who would be teaching superior math to humanity and not any other life form despite every beneficial advantage of time and conditions?
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DrJones* Member Posts: 2284 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 6.8 |
and people lived to greater lifespans
Your evidence for this is? Just a monkey in a long line of kings. If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! *not an actual doctor
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3669 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote:When we consider what factors give longevity and what negates it, aside from wars and natural disasters, we find the positive conditions would have existed in ancient periods. Although medicine was not yet invented - its requirement would be less because deseases would be less common. In ancient times peoples seldom ventured out of their communities, so there was less interaction for spreading of desease, and the air would have been cleaner. This is also backed by the OT - a diarised historical account with dates, names and places over a period of 2500 years, and which evidence a gradual decline in life spans. The current increase in lifespan is likewise a reversal factor, whereby many deseases are being cured, indicating a longer lifespan existed in the past.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3669 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote:When we consider what factors give longevity and what negates it, aside from wars and natural disasters, we find the positive conditions would have existed in ancient periods. Although medicine was not yet invented - its requirement would be less because deseases would be less common. In ancient times peoples seldom ventured out of their communities, so there was less interaction for spreading of desease, and the air would have been cleaner. This is also backed by the OT - a diarised historical account with dates, names and places over a period of 2500 years, and which evidence a gradual decline in life spans. The current increase in lifespan is likewise a reversal factor, whereby many deseases are being cured, indicating a longer lifespan existed in the past.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3669 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Spot on! Soil and sunlight being externally impacting factors, as opposed the internally derived seed. An embryo is internally derived.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3669 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
double post!
Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3669 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: There is not a shred of evidence to back this up, of speech being gradually developed and evolving. There are no grads of 40K, 30K, 20K and 10K years! All of what we associate with speech endowed human developments and its history are only seen in the last 6000. There is a clear reason for not acknowledging this blatancy - because of its inferences and impacts which give credibility to Creationism: go ahead - deny it! But no sector of humanity recalling via memory and oral transmissions, a single 'NAME' or event pre-6000 is an undeniable stretch. The retreat to cave markings, with no surrounding back-up, is what we are left with - but here, science becomes pseudo and surreal, akin to improvised sci-fi.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3669 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: You are going in a scenario where the 'switch' is not ignited, siting abuse and exceptional conditions. Denying one from breathing will have the same effect - though a child inherently possesses the breathing attribute. Speech is not an evolved phenomenon: apes are older than humans, and equally possess adaptation, have brains and communication faculties. Cholmsky has been wrong in almost everything he has ever said - exploiting knowledge he begat selectively via manipulation and for self-serving purposes. Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 285 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Here's another one I made up: WHAT'S WRONG WITH MY MADE-UP STATEMENT - IS A SEED NOT AN INTERNALLY DERIVED FACTOR? What's wrong with it is that the phrase "internally derived factor" does not mean anything. If you want to ask questions about biology, learn the language of biology. Otherwise no-one will understand your questions.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 285 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
There is not a shred of evidence to back this up, of speech being gradually developed and evolving. There are no grads of 40K, 30K, 20K and 10K years! All of what we associate with speech endowed human developments and its history are only seen in the last 6000. But this is not so. There are civilisations dating well before 6000 years ago. Try not to base your case on made-up stuff.
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Max Power Member (Idle past 6007 days) Posts: 32 From: Minneapolis, MN, USA Joined: |
The point of humans is misleading here: better we apply the term, speech endowed life form - which is what genesis refers to, and the factor which separates modern humans from all other life forms. The 6000 figure does not apply to any other life forms. So you are defining humans as those who were around 6000 years ago, then concluding that humans have been around for 6000 years. I am arguing that it has taken hundreds of thousands of years for humans to get to the point (physically and socially) where humans were 6000 years ago. Your only evidence that humans came into existence 6000 years ago is that thats when we started writing stuff such that modern humans can read it (stone/continually rewriting/etc).
Speech endowed life forms align with what we see of modern humans within the last 6000 phase: pyramids, writings, wars, nations, names and dates - and there is no 'history' prior to the 6000. Will you agree with me that it takes a lot more than just the ability to communicate to have pyramids, writings etc? A civilization where every member has to work all day long in order to get the food they need to survive probably can't build pyramids. They probably won't be too concerned about developing a written language when they don't have the time, nor need to read or write. You seem to be assuming that once a being can speak that the ability and desire to write are going to happen at the same time. This is why others have cited the development of the larynx and the 40,000 plus year history of human speech.
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Doddy Member (Idle past 5910 days) Posts: 563 From: Brisbane, Australia Joined: |
IamJoseph writes:
I've already explained why other organisms didn't develop speech but hominids did - much the same reason that only elephants gained a prehensile nose. Why are you not claiming that an elephants trunk is bestowed, as no other animal, despite billions of years, has developed it. It never emerged via coos and hisses, as is thought: speech arrived suddenly and in an already advanced state - in oral form first - independently in all areas of the planet. This is why million year old life forms never attained speech despite evolution, adaptation and every other facility available. Evolution does not have any set "aim" or "goals". It is not a process with the intent to create as many smart creatures as possible, or as many talking creatures as possible, or as many creatures with long noses as possible. The only criteria is survival, and that can be solved in a myriad of ways, only one of which is intelligence and speech. Contributors needed for the following articles: Pleiotropy, Metabolism, Promoter, Invertebrate, Meiosis, DNA, Transcription, Chromosome, Tetrapod, Phenotype, Messenger RNA, Mammals, Appendix , Variation, Selection, Gene, Gametogenesis, Homo erectus and others. Registration not needed, but if desired, register here!
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