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Author Topic:   How does science disprove the Bible?
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 76 of 310 (408941)
07-06-2007 3:22 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by jar
07-06-2007 12:04 AM


Re: It is time you actually start supporting your idiotic comments.
quote:
jar:
I'm sorry but that is simply more of your bullshit. There is no sex for either the original or either of the two critters after the division.
Why not pause to see a legitimate different reading of the text, even if it does not equate with your assumption of it. The first recorded scientific equation is, according to Genesis, that all life forms originated as a duality (there is no SINGULARITY in the universe):
"MAN AND WOMEN CREATED HE THEM".
Your rejection of the male/female aspect of this duality factor is negotiable and subject to transitory stage, at best. I say, let the results determine it - if a male/female result occurs, it prevails, and in fact over-rides your premise! The aspect of a non-duality amoeba is also incorrect: there is no singularity anyplace, and a splitting of a cell affirms that life emerges only with a duality. The duality factor applies on all levels, micro and macro, and living and inanimate entities (light/darkness, water/earth, day/night, man/woman, etc).
quote:
How can you ask such! King David, 250 years after Joshua, established Jerusalem as the capital (The Tel Dan discovery), and King Solomon built the Temple (numerous archeological finds are in the Jerusalem Museum).
I'm sorry but what the hell does that have to do with the period of the alleged Conquest of Canaan?
Only that Joshua represents the period of Judges, and David is the second king in the period of kings - a mere 250 years after Joshua enters canaan. I quoted you a find, Tel Dan, which Archeological scholars accepted David was a true historical figure. The conquest of canaan is recorded in the book of Joshua, and while there are minutae items of some battles which are not yet confirmed by archeology, these are insignificant instances. The conquest of canaan took 150 years.
quote:
I don't want to spam, but there is an Egyptian stele, more than 3000 years old, which mentions a war with Israel, and this has been addressed in this forum.
What the hell would that have to do with evidence of Hebrews being in Egypt at the supposed time of the Exodus?
The ancient egyptian stele, dated more than 3000 years old, says Egypt went to war with Israel. There is no disputation evidence from any source that the Israelites and ancient Egyptians had a historical interaction.
quote:
I'm sorry but that is simply a collection of nonsense. Were in there is there any evidence that any of the people mentioned in the Exodus myth ever existed? Where is there any evidence that Moses existed? How about Aaron? Where is there any evidence that Abraham ever existed?
Moses is not proven as yet, but there's loads of evidence for it. Its not a collection of nonsense because there is authentic, contemporary historical stats here: two cities are mentioned built by the Hebrews; the town of Goshen has been identified; the diets, religions and names mentioned of egypt are authentic. Perhaps you can offer another document which performs equally that way?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by jar, posted 07-06-2007 12:04 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by jar, posted 07-06-2007 10:30 AM IamJoseph has replied

IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 77 of 310 (408942)
07-06-2007 3:29 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by iceage
07-06-2007 12:42 AM


Re: It is time you actually start supporting your idiotic comments.
quote:
iceage
I don't see what you are tying to prove here at all. Yes the names of people, kingdoms, regions and cities can be found in archeology and common for the period of the writing of the various texts of the Bible... err so....
The same can be said of the Iliad and Odyessy - was there really a Trojan War? very likely to some extent. Did a one-eyed cyclops really exist?. My bets are no.
You cannot bet no: names are the most utilised mode archeologists use for their spacetime verifications; seconded by writings styles. I too used to get frustrated with the multiple page listings of names in numerous generations of biblical figures, questioning their relevence: I later saw them as pivotal factors.

This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 78 of 310 (408964)
07-06-2007 7:28 AM


IamJoseph: nothing you say means anything, because you are talking in a language which you made up in your head.

Replies to this message:
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IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 79 of 310 (408968)
07-06-2007 8:26 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by Dr Adequate
07-06-2007 7:28 AM


WHAT'S IN A NAME - PLENTY!
quote:
IamJoseph: nothing you say means anything, because you are talking in a language which you made up in your head.
Its called the grey matter, and mine says names are a pivotal tool in archeology. What do you think was the most common name in the middle-east 4000 years ago?

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 Message 78 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-06-2007 7:28 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 80 of 310 (408979)
07-06-2007 10:18 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by IamJoseph
07-06-2007 2:51 AM


Re: It is time you actually start supporting your idiotic comments.
Eden's setting is a non-physical realm. The 'LET "US" MAKE MAN' denotes Gd talking with angels in a realm other than earth, which was created before the earth as per V1:
Please show where there is any evidence that Eden was parted or in another realm.
Are you sure you are not just simple?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by IamJoseph, posted 07-06-2007 2:51 AM IamJoseph has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 81 of 310 (408981)
07-06-2007 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by IamJoseph
07-06-2007 3:22 AM


Re: It is time you actually start supporting your idiotic comments.
Your rejection of the male/female aspect of this duality factor is negotiable and subject to transitory stage, at best.
Bullshit.
A single celled organism is sexless. That is not negotiable. It is neither male or female. When it divides it neither of the resulting critters is male or female.
The conquest of canaan is recorded in the book of Joshua, and while there are minutae items of some battles which are not yet confirmed by archeology, these are insignificant instances. The conquest of canaan took 150 years.
I'm sorry but that too is just bullshit.
There is absolute evidence from the rulers of the various City-States of the area during the period that Joshua supposedly takes place that shows that not one of them is aware of any Hebrew army or invasion. There is also positive evidence that many of the cities Joshua supposedly conquered were not even occupied at the time and that others were not walled, but only unprotected villages.
And evidence from a quarter century later proves nothing about the earlier period.
Read all of the Armana Tablets.
The ancient egyptian stele, dated more than 3000 years old, says Egypt went to war with Israel. There is no disputation evidence from any source that the Israelites and ancient Egyptians had a historical interaction.
So far you have not specified what stele you are talking about and so it cannot be relevant.
Moses is not proven as yet, but there's loads of evidence for it.
Then present some evidence.
Its not a collection of nonsense because there is authentic, contemporary historical stats here: two cities are mentioned built by the Hebrews; the town of Goshen has been identified; the diets, religions and names mentioned of egypt are authentic. Perhaps you can offer another document which performs equally that way?
Certainly. Huck Finn.
Edited by jar, : appalin spallin and missed a closing quote

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by IamJoseph, posted 07-06-2007 3:22 AM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
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IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 82 of 310 (408986)
07-06-2007 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by jar
07-06-2007 10:30 AM


Re: It is time you actually start supporting your idiotic comments.
quote:
Certainly. Huck Finn.
Stay where you are. lets hope your science is not founded on such understandings!

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Message 83 of 310 (409000)
07-06-2007 1:46 PM


Forum Guidelines Alert
Those inclined to ignore moderator requests and the Forum Guidelines and the goal of any rational discussion at all present a difficult challenge. I encourage everyone who cares how they are thought of to make an effort not to be perceived as falling into this category.

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anastasia
Member (Idle past 5952 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 84 of 310 (409032)
07-06-2007 9:12 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by IamJoseph
07-06-2007 2:51 AM


Re: It is time you actually start supporting your idiotic comments.
IamJoseph writes:
Eden's setting is a non-physical realm. The 'LET "US" MAKE MAN' denotes Gd talking with angels in a realm other than earth, which was created before the earth as per V1:
That is weird logic on too many levels. You not only assume the 'us' is angels, but you also assume that God couldn't converse in one realm i.e., the supernatural, while in the process of creating the physical world.
Always makes me laugh when people just 'know' what the Bible says, without realizing that all of the evidence is in their interpretation, and not the actual text.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 85 of 310 (409035)
07-06-2007 9:39 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by IamJoseph
07-06-2007 11:47 AM


Re: It is time you actually start supporting your idiotic comments.
I think the point here is that the fact that a document mentions places that actually exist is not evidence of its veracity. Jar mentions "Huck Finn" as a known work of fiction set in very real places; my favorite example is Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet, because I can personally vouch for the existence of Verona, Italy.
Your little snipe at his expense doesn't impeach Jar's point - the mere mention of cities that are known to exist doesn't corroborate any part of the Bible. Those cities would have been known to the Bible writers, too.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by IamJoseph, posted 07-06-2007 11:47 AM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by IamJoseph, posted 07-06-2007 10:38 PM crashfrog has replied

IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 86 of 310 (409037)
07-06-2007 10:26 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by anastasia
07-06-2007 9:12 PM


Re: It is time you actually start supporting your idiotic comments.
quote:
That is weird logic on too many levels. You not only assume the 'us' is angels,
So teach me - I was just going by the texts. Humans were not yet created - the heavens were: who does 'US' refer to?
quote:
but you also assume that God couldn't converse in one realm i.e., the supernatural, while in the process of creating the physical world.
How so - when I referred 'US' to the supernatural?
quote:
Always makes me laugh when people just 'know' what the Bible says, without realizing that all of the evidence is in their interpretation, and not the actual text.
The actual text says 'US' - before humans emerged. Not!?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by anastasia, posted 07-06-2007 9:12 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
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IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 87 of 310 (409038)
07-06-2007 10:38 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by crashfrog
07-06-2007 9:39 PM


Re: It is time you actually start supporting your idiotic comments.
quote:
Your little snipe at his expense doesn't impeach Jar's point - the mere mention of cities that are known to exist doesn't corroborate any part of the Bible. Those cities would have been known to the Bible writers, too.
I don't mean to impeach your statement either. Perhaps the Israelites had advanced computers which archived 1000s of names, dates and places for a period of 3000 years. And they got them all right by some clever guessmatics - then overlaid a fictional story about Abraham and Moses for dramatic effect - just as Shakespear did. The confusing part is that Shakespear had access to good historical archives - and these were not around with the Israelites! Perhaps they got some help from someone - chariots of the Gods?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by crashfrog, posted 07-06-2007 9:39 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
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IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 88 of 310 (409039)
07-06-2007 10:41 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Admin
07-06-2007 1:46 PM


Re: Forum Guidelines Alert
quote:
Moderator:
Those inclined to ignore moderator requests and the Forum Guidelines and the goal of any rational discussion at all present a difficult challenge. I encourage everyone who cares how they are thought of to make an effort not to be perceived as falling into this category.
Not many here are convincing in How does science disprove the Bible?

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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 89 of 310 (409043)
07-06-2007 11:05 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dragoness
06-22-2007 11:20 PM


Dragoness
Examples of instances where science DISPROOVES parts of the Bible
My favorite has to be in Isaiah 38:8
Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down
I made a point of this in another thread a long time ago and this was the response I made then.
Now it appears Tom is under some illusion of what is entailed in the physics behind a god stopping the earth and reversing the rotation.
Besides the fact that no other nation recorded this event,nor,I might add did they notice that the sun now came up on the horizon it used to set on.{Remember,the earth is never stated as being returned to its original spin.}
The earth rotates at 1000 mph at the equator. It rotates at about,say, 450 mph at the level of the Middle East.Now if you stop the earth all the people and animals and anything to varying degrees according to their composition and mass will still be rotating at 450 mph eastward.Mountains would move less as the shearing forces began to acquire sufficient energy to break and melt rock.
So basically you would be sitting in your fields tending your sheep when you suddenly find the ground beneath you grinding the flesh off your bones from the friction as you are now moving across it at 450 mph.The pain would be short lived as you quickly slam into a nearby hillside as it is turning into slag from the heat produced by inertial forces.Let us nor forget the wind at earths surface would now be experiencing similar disaster as it now moves at similar velocity along with you.The waters of the ocean are fluid so they would now be under some weird shifts since the gravitational forces are unbalanced towards the moon along with the surge as the oceans continued to move at the same speed.
This is planetary destruction unlike anything ever described before.

"Good displays of data help to reveal knowledge relevant to understanding mechanism, process and dynamics, cause and effect." We see the unthinkable and think the unseeable. "Visual representations of evidence should be governed by principles of reasoning about quantitative evidence. Clear and precise seeing becomes as one with clear and precise thinking."
Edward R. Tufte

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anastasia
Member (Idle past 5952 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 90 of 310 (409046)
07-06-2007 11:23 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by IamJoseph
07-06-2007 10:26 PM


Re: It is time you actually start supporting your idiotic comments.
IamJoseph writes:
So teach me - I was just going by the texts. Humans were not yet created - the heavens were: who does 'US' refer to?
There is a pretty elaborate thread around here somewhere which asks just that. IIRC, angels were not the immediate explanation, or the most fitting, for the 'US" in Genesis. I can do a search for that thread if you like, unless someone gets to it before I do. I just remember the name changed a few times, so it might take me a minute.
How so - when I referred 'US' to the supernatural?
Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying, so I will re-read it before I comment.
The actual text says 'US' - before humans emerged. Not!?
Sure, it says 'US' but it doesn't say who US is. I am not picking on you, it is just a common thing I've noticed when people start a thread or make a statement about the Bible. Often they don't realize that they've started with a conclusion that is not even in there.
For the record, a lot of people think 'us' is the Trinity, and THAT is not even really supported textually. I doubt this thought would change your argument in this case, but many times one slight alternate reading makes a huge difference in the subsequent analysis.

This message is a reply to:
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