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Author Topic:   How does science disprove the Bible?
ICANT
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Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 235 of 310 (409388)
07-09-2007 8:49 AM
Reply to: Message 227 by iceage
07-09-2007 1:19 AM


Re: Genesis is a Myth
This is just too weird. You have no evidence to support this claim other than the Bible and an inspired unique reading Genesis.
Almost as weird as the story about the singularity appearing from nothing and expanding into the universe.
I have the same evidence for my belief that I get from the Bible as there is for the weird story about the big band, or whatever you want to call it.
I have writings that infer it took place.
We are here.
It must have happened.
No offense but can you see why I or others might be sceptical?
I got no problem with you being skeptical iceage or anybody else.
Sometimes when I read what I have typed I think that guy is a stark raving mad maniac. It just sounds to impossible to be true.
But this is the only place I have ever been able to air these views and get feedback to make me think about what I believe. Everywhere else I have mentioned them in the past 47 years they just say something like preposterous or nutty old man.
iceage I believe the Bible and I try to understand what it says not what I want it to say or what someone tells me it says.
What I believe about the creation as I understand Genesis 1:1 is not now refuted by science.
the bible has revealed nothing to even to the most *inspired* readers.
I always had this stupid idea that the Bible had some revelations in it. Like:
Levi 17:11 (KJV) For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
This is a fact that science did not discover until about 400 years ago.
Then again maybe I am mistaken.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by iceage, posted 07-09-2007 1:19 AM iceage has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 236 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-09-2007 9:30 AM ICANT has not replied
 Message 237 by Modulous, posted 07-09-2007 9:45 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 241 by Coragyps, posted 07-09-2007 10:45 AM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 273 of 310 (409541)
07-10-2007 3:04 AM
Reply to: Message 241 by Coragyps
07-09-2007 10:45 AM


Re: Genesis is a Myth
Thank you.
For the life of the flesh is in the mitochondria:
Fixed it for you.
http://www.microscopy.fsu.edu/...ochondria/mitochondria.html
Mitochondria are rod-shaped organelles that can be considered the power generators of the cell, converting oxygen and nutrients into adenosine triphosphate (ATP). ATP is the chemical energy "currency" of the cell that powers the cell's metabolic activities. This process is called aerobic respiration and is the reason animals breathe oxygen. Without mitochondria (singular, mitochondrion), higher animals would likely not exist because their cells would only be able to obtain energy from anaerobic respiration (in the absence of oxygen), a process much less efficient than aerobic respiration. In fact, mitochondria enable cells to produce 15 times more ATP than they could otherwise, and complex animals, like humans, need large amounts of energy in order to survive.
So what is contained in these Mitochondria, that is the life of the flesh? I know they generate energy and are known as powerhouses.
If I remember correctly they are in all cells except red blood cells, correct me if my memory fails me.
BTW when was this discovered?
Inquiring minds want to know.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 241 by Coragyps, posted 07-09-2007 10:45 AM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by iceage, posted 07-10-2007 3:20 AM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 276 of 310 (409545)
07-10-2007 3:15 AM
Reply to: Message 239 by Straggler
07-09-2007 10:21 AM


Re: Prediction
Straggler,
I simply made a prediction using information I find in the Bible.
If that prediction comes true then the Bible is proven true.
And it does not make any difference what science says.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by Straggler, posted 07-09-2007 10:21 AM Straggler has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 309 by nator, posted 07-10-2007 9:33 PM ICANT has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 278 of 310 (409550)
07-10-2007 3:37 AM
Reply to: Message 238 by Dr Adequate
07-09-2007 9:58 AM


Re: Genesis is a Myth
Very well. Science shows that the Earth is billions of years younger than the universe. Hence, God did not create it "in the beginning".
Are you positive of the fact that they could not be created at the same time.
I asked a question earlier and did not get an answer maybe you got one Dr.
If Genesis 1:1 took place 13.7 billion years ago.
Then 5 billion years ago the earth melted with fervent heat. (everything became molten)
The earth then cooled over a period of time.
Would there be any trace of what happened on earth before the meltdown and would it be possible to date the rock past the meltdown?
Emjoy

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-09-2007 9:58 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 284 by Percy, posted 07-10-2007 9:40 AM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 280 of 310 (409556)
07-10-2007 5:11 AM
Reply to: Message 237 by Modulous
07-09-2007 9:45 AM


Re: Genesis is a Myth
I've never heard about a singularity appearing from nothing,
Paul Davies writes:
What happened before the big bang?
The answer is: nothing.
http://www.fortunecity.com/emachines/e11/86/big-bang.html
In the Beginning
The Big Bang model of the universe's birth is the most widely accepted model that has ever been conceived for the scientific origin of everything. No other model can predict as much as the Big Bang model can.
http://filer.case.edu/~sjr16/cosmos_bigbang.html
The universe had a beginning. There was once nothing and now there is something.
404-page | Princeton University Press
Imagine Home | Ask an Astrophysicist | Time before the Big Bang
The Question
(Submitted June 29, 2006)
I have trouble seeing how time came to existence from the Big Bang. If this is the case, it will mean no time will before the Big Bang they would be no time for something to cause the Singularity to explode it will be frozen in time without causing any Big Bang.
The Answer
Thanks for your excellent question. You are among some of our great scientific thinkers when it comes to wondering about the beginning of time. The truth is that, we don't yet have a definitive answer. The Big Bang certainly suggests that time began at the first instant of the Big Bang, since before then, the universe was collapsed into a singularity. The notion of time within the Big Bang scenario is discussed at length by Stephen Hawking. Everything is squeezed down to zero and such physical quantities as spacetime become infinite. The singularity is the point at which time has no meaning.
Imagine the Universe!
Modulous writes:
It is not a fact, its complete gobbledegook.
Are you stating it is a scientific fact that the life is in the blood is false, It is just a bunch of gobbledgook?

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by Modulous, posted 07-09-2007 9:45 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 283 by Modulous, posted 07-10-2007 7:08 AM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 282 of 310 (409560)
07-10-2007 5:59 AM
Reply to: Message 277 by iceage
07-10-2007 3:20 AM


Re: Genesis is a Myth
But note, blood being the "life of the flesh" is really inaccurate or at least incomplete. Blood is only one (but necessary) component of "life of the flesh" there are other components just as necessary.
Levi 17:11 (KJV) For the life of the flesh is in the
blood:..........
This verse does not say the BLOOD is the life of the flesh.
This verse says the life of the flesh is IN the blood.
Also note the Egyptians believed the soul and mind was centered in the heart. The biblical writers evidently were "inspired" to continue that misconception.
Duh!
Matt 22:37 (KJV) Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Is that the reason Jesus said: heart which=physical.
Mind which=intelligence.
Soul which=spirit.
Making us a trinity made in the likeness and image of God.
I checked your source He can't read no better than you can.
iceage writes:
blood being the "life of the flesh"
Bible writes:
For the life of the flesh is in the
blood
Enjoy

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by iceage, posted 07-10-2007 3:20 AM iceage has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 289 by iceage, posted 07-10-2007 11:43 AM ICANT has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 285 of 310 (409581)
07-10-2007 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 284 by Percy
07-10-2007 9:40 AM


Re: Genesis is a Myth
To finally answer your question about whether we would be able to tell if the earth was 13.7 billion years old if it had been molten until about 4.56 billion years ago, the answer is yes. A molten state tends to reset radiometric clocks, not because melting has any atomic effect, but because it breaks up the rock crystals that hold elements firmly in place and mixes everything up again.
Percy, now you really got me confused. You say yes the dating would still show it to be 13.7 billion years old but then you raise a question by saying the molten state tends to reset the radiometric clocks because of the mixing. If it reset the clock then it should only show to be 4.56 billion years old.
Percy if you haven't figured out I am a total nut case by now I will cap it for you.
I believe the universe is infinite and has always been here and that on occasions things happen and it starts all over again. When I first started researching I saw the string theory where it was like a cone on both ends. A universe ending and a new one beginning and something similar to that is what I envision.
I know I make some crazy statements sometimes and I ask even crazier questions, but I found that is the best way to get input and answers.
To learn you must ask questions and get answers and do research and more research then you gain a little knowledge I have enjoyed my time here so far.
Its a fun learning experience.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by Percy, posted 07-10-2007 9:40 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 286 by Percy, posted 07-10-2007 11:06 AM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 287 of 310 (409590)
07-10-2007 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 283 by Modulous
07-10-2007 7:08 AM


Re: singular gobbledegook
Levi 17:11 (KJV) For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
Sorry for blotching that post as to make it where you did not get the point. I don't like to quote part of a verse and so I left all in not thinking that you think a lot different than I do.
I think my Message 282 will clear up what I was getting at.
To explain the rest of the verse, God was talking about the shed blood of Jesus that was shed for the sins of all mankind even though it did not take place for quite some time. But as far as God was concerned it was a done deal.
I am perfectly happy to discuss cosmology in more depth with you if you'd like,
Modulous, I don't know anything about anything scientific. I do know about selective breeding to produce hybrids as a farm boy. I know quite a bit about what the Bible says been studying it for 48 years. But I am learning here about a lot of things.
In Message 285 to Percy I mentioned my thoughts about the universe.
I mentioned about the string theory where I saw a picture of 2 cones back to back with one universe imploding and one being born out the other side. I think this has been going on for infinity.
I also believe in the future the earth will melt with fervent heat and there will be a new heaven and new earth. I believe it because the Bible says it will happen. I have read where some of our scientist believe it is going to happen because of what they see in the evidence. That I don't know about I will just leave that up to them.
2Pet 3:10 (KJV) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Reve 21:1 (KJS) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Two different writers one telling us it was going to melt and another telling us there was going to be a new heaven and a new earth.
Enjoy

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by Modulous, posted 07-10-2007 7:08 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 293 by Modulous, posted 07-10-2007 1:30 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 288 of 310 (409595)
07-10-2007 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 286 by Percy
07-10-2007 11:06 AM


Re: Genesis is a Myth
Anyway, the types of hypotheses you're hitching your horse to do not postulate that anything survives from one universe to the next. If there was another universe that preceded this one, there are no planets or stars left over from it.
That is what I am saying everything comes out on the other side brand new. Like all those junk cars we ship to china are coming back as TV's, cell phones, and all the metal in walmart and Home Depot stores.
But Percy I am going on things I get from the Bible.
Let me try to put what I believe about God in prospective. I believe God can do anything. I have had personal experiences that have convinced me of the fact that God does exist. That He is much more powerful than the mind of man can begin to imagine. So why would He be limited to doing this human experiment just one time. Why not 2, 3, 20, 30 1000 or even more. He could even have it going on in other parts of the universe now. I will not put a limit on what my God can do.
I(just)CANT get over the fact that God loved me, poor wretched man that I am.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by Percy, posted 07-10-2007 11:06 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 291 by Percy, posted 07-10-2007 1:05 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 294 of 310 (409635)
07-10-2007 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 291 by Percy
07-10-2007 1:05 PM


Re: Genesis is a Myth
Your recent speculations come from you, not from the Bible,
I do know we had a beginning to this phase we are in at the present time according to the Bible. Genesis 1:2-2:3 covers this phase,
Genesis 1:1 and 2:4-4:26 was a phase, and there is a phase where everything is going to meltdown and we will have a new heaven and a new earth.
2Peter 3:10 and Rev.21:1 will be the next phase. The Bible tells me this event is going to take place in the future. The other two have already taken place.
The rest I was exercising my mind letting it wander around in possibilities.
Message 284
the earth completed its formation to reach its current approximate size about 4.56 billion years ago through a process of gradually dragging in material from the early solar system by way of gravity and collisions over millions and millions of years.
But Percy you are saying the earth was fully formed 4:56 billion years ago. But that it had taken millions and millions of years to grow to the present size. Are you sure it didn't take billions of years? But nevertheless you have it older than 4.56 billion years.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 291 by Percy, posted 07-10-2007 1:05 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 295 by PaulK, posted 07-10-2007 4:23 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 307 by Percy, posted 07-10-2007 9:15 PM ICANT has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 296 of 310 (409639)
07-10-2007 4:41 PM
Reply to: Message 290 by AdminCoragyps
07-10-2007 12:26 PM


Re-Blood
ICANT writes:
This verse does not say the BLOOD is the life of the flesh.
This verse says the life of the flesh is IN the blood. Neither does it say the spark of life.
iceage writes:
But the life of the flesh in not IN the blood. Show how this
is true.
Red corpusals carry all the oxygen to the Mitochondria.
The white carry the nutrients to the Mitochondria.
The Mitochondria converts this into ATP energy.
The red corpusals are the only cells The Mitochondria are not in.
Without the oxygen and nutrients there would be no energy and thus no life.
http://www.microscopy.fsu.edu/...ochondria/mitochondria.html
Mitochondria are rod-shaped organelles that can be considered the power generators of the cell, converting oxygen and nutrients into adenosine triphosphate (ATP). ATP is the chemical energy "currency" of the cell that powers the cell's metabolic activities. This process is called aerobic respiration and is the reason animals breathe oxygen. Without mitochondria (singular, mitochondrion), higher animals would likely not exist because their cells would only be able to obtain energy from anaerobic respiration (in the absence of oxygen), a process much less efficient than aerobic respiration. In fact, mitochondria enable cells to produce 15 times more ATP than they could otherwise, and complex animals, like humans, need large amounts of energy in order to survive.
iceage writes:
Blood is necessary for some (not all) life to exist as are other bodily components. The "spark" of life exists outside the blood.
Duh Read the next scripture I supplied with the comments.
Enjoy

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 290 by AdminCoragyps, posted 07-10-2007 12:26 PM AdminCoragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 305 by iceage, posted 07-10-2007 6:20 PM ICANT has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 297 of 310 (409641)
07-10-2007 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 295 by PaulK
07-10-2007 4:23 PM


Re: Genesis is a Myth
In case you've forgotten your huge gap between Genesis 4 and 5 is your invention. It isn't in the Bible at all.
But I don't have a big gap between Genesis 4 and 5.They could have been hours or minutes but I think it was a little longer than that.
I do have a long day between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 5:1 which begins at Genesis 1:2.
Enjoy

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 295 by PaulK, posted 07-10-2007 4:23 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 298 by PaulK, posted 07-10-2007 4:58 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 299 of 310 (409650)
07-10-2007 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 293 by Modulous
07-10-2007 1:30 PM


Re: singular gobbledegook
No worries. Then let it be known that the genesis story is far more incredible (as in 'not credible') or absurd than the physics of cosmology which seem occasionally counter-intuitive, but actually extraordinarily beautiful, symmetrical and simple.
Paul Davies writes:
What happened before the big bang?
The answer is: nothing.
http://www.fortunecity.com/emachines/e11/86/big-bang.html
In the Beginning
The Big Bang model of the universe's birth is the most widely accepted model that has ever been conceived for the scientific origin of everything. No other model can predict as much as the Big Bang model can.
http://filer.case.edu/~sjr16/cosmos_bigbang.html
The universe had a beginning. There was once nothing and now there is something.
404-page | Princeton University Press
Imagine Home | Ask an Astrophysicist | Time before the Big Bang
The Question
(Submitted June 29, 2006)
I have trouble seeing how time came to existence from the Big Bang. If this is the case, it will mean no time will before the Big Bang they would be no time for something to cause the Singularity to explode it will be frozen in time without causing any Big Bang.
The Answer
Thanks for your excellent question. You are among some of our great scientific thinkers when it comes to wondering about the beginning of time. The truth is that, we don't yet have a definitive answer. The Big Bang certainly suggests that time began at the first instant of the Big Bang, since before then, the universe was collapsed into a singularity. The notion of time within the Big Bang scenario is discussed at length by Stephen Hawking. Everything is squeezed down to zero and such physical quantities as spacetime become infinite. The singularity is the point at which time has no meaning.
Imagine the Universe!
There are scientist saying here that there was nothing now there is something.
My question where did it come from?
It is easier to believe it came from God than it came from nothing.
Have Fun.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 293 by Modulous, posted 07-10-2007 1:30 PM Modulous has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 304 by PaulK, posted 07-10-2007 6:01 PM ICANT has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 300 of 310 (409653)
07-10-2007 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 298 by PaulK
07-10-2007 4:58 PM


Re: Genesis is a Myth
You've got to put that gap - now billions of years - somewhere in the narrative
If you will read the message you are replying to you will see that I put those billions of years between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 4:26 It was one long day, and shortly there after you have Genesis 1:2 and the 7 days of Moses that the generations of 5:1 and onward tell you about.
Enjoy
Edited by ICANT, : No reason given.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 298 by PaulK, posted 07-10-2007 4:58 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 303 by PaulK, posted 07-10-2007 5:59 PM ICANT has not replied

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