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Author Topic:   The C.C.O.I. (Christian Cult Of Ignorance) and Willful Ignorance
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 33 of 675 (409444)
07-09-2007 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Phat
07-09-2007 1:56 PM


Re: What God expects
The question is whether God would have allowed that individual every chance at rationally deciding their future. If the Satanist had been given a jaded view of who God was or who Christ was, they would not really be making a rational and free decision. If, on the other hand, God actually had one last time to speak to their heart and soul right as they died,
if they still freely rejected Him and even if He knew, He would not be evil for mere foreknowledge.
Did you agree God creates everything that is, seen and unseen?
Did you agree that God foreknows everything a person will think?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Phat, posted 07-09-2007 1:56 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Phat, posted 07-09-2007 2:06 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 35 of 675 (409447)
07-09-2007 2:10 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Phat
07-09-2007 2:06 PM


Re: What God expects
If that is true, then what you said in Message 32
The question is whether God would have allowed that individual every chance at rationally deciding their future. If the Satanist had been given a jaded view of who God was or who Christ was, they would not really be making a rational and free decision. If, on the other hand, God actually had one last time to speak to their heart and soul right as they died,
if they still freely rejected Him and even if He knew, He would not be evil for mere foreknowledge.
is simply a farce. God already knows what the person will choose.
Is that correct?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Phat, posted 07-09-2007 2:06 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Phat, posted 07-09-2007 2:23 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 37 of 675 (409451)
07-09-2007 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Phat
07-09-2007 2:23 PM


Re: What God expects
I suppose that technically, yes. God knows what the person ultimately will choose.
Okay.
So according to you, your God created someone that She knew would reject her.
Next step.
Is the Satanist who rejects God saved?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Phat, posted 07-09-2007 2:23 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Phat, posted 07-09-2007 2:41 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 39 of 675 (409455)
07-09-2007 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Phat
07-09-2007 2:41 PM


Re: What God expects
You are trying to change the subject.
I asked:
Okay.
So according to you, your God created someone that She knew would reject her.
Next step.
Is the Satanist who rejects God saved?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Phat, posted 07-09-2007 2:41 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Phat, posted 07-09-2007 3:18 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 41 of 675 (409461)
07-09-2007 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Phat
07-09-2007 3:18 PM


Re: What God expects
So belief in God is not necessary for salvation.
Correct?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Phat, posted 07-09-2007 3:18 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Phat, posted 07-09-2007 3:28 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 43 of 675 (409465)
07-09-2007 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Phat
07-09-2007 3:28 PM


Re: What God expects
There you go adding qualifiers.
Think something through for a change.
Did God create the Satanist?
Did God have foreknowledge of what the Satanist would think and do?
Will the Satanist be saved?
Is belief necessary for salvation?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Phat, posted 07-09-2007 3:28 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Phat, posted 07-10-2007 5:22 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 45 of 675 (409657)
07-10-2007 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Phat
07-10-2007 5:22 PM


Re: What God expects
You are being inconsistent again.
You said God foreknows every decision that will be made. If that is the case there is no freewill and God most certainly did create the Satanist.
If we are going to get anywhere you need to stop simply changing what you believe every other line.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Phat, posted 07-10-2007 5:22 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Phat, posted 07-10-2007 10:07 PM jar has replied
 Message 229 by Phat, posted 10-17-2011 2:53 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 47 of 675 (409707)
07-10-2007 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Phat
07-10-2007 10:07 PM


Back to basics.
I see we need to go back over the basics yet again.
Does God create everything that is, seen and unseen?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Phat, posted 07-10-2007 10:07 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Phat, posted 07-11-2007 3:25 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 50 of 675 (409790)
07-11-2007 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Phat
07-11-2007 3:25 AM


Re: Back to basics.
He does not create my thoughts, does He? Lets think about this for a moment.
We are not dealing with that yet but rather if God creates you?
Edited by jar, : put in dropped if

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Phat, posted 07-11-2007 3:25 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Phat, posted 07-11-2007 1:15 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 52 of 675 (409821)
07-11-2007 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Phat
07-11-2007 1:15 PM


Re: Back to basics.
Sorry but that is nothing but Theobabble. Lots of words with absolutely no content.
I believe that God foreknows everything I think, thunk, and shall think....but I don't believe that He initiated the creation of the logic (or illogic) of those thoughts.
That is simply an illogical, unreasonable, contradictory string of nonsense.
Do you believe "God foreknows everything I think, thunk, and shall think..."?
If so, then the second half of what you say, "...but I don't believe that He initiated the creation of the logic (or illogic) of those thoughts" contradicts it.
If God Creates something and is aware of all that that critter will do in the future, then that critter has no freewill.
It really is simple. If I create a machine that I know will always turn left, then even if that thing "Thinks it will decide which way to turn" it will always turn left.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Phat, posted 07-11-2007 1:15 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Phat, posted 07-12-2007 3:55 AM jar has replied
 Message 234 by Phat, posted 10-18-2011 8:52 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 54 of 675 (409924)
07-12-2007 9:34 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by Phat
07-12-2007 3:55 AM


Re: Back to basics.
Do you believe "God foreknows everything I think, thunk, and shall think..."?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Phat, posted 07-12-2007 3:55 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Phat, posted 07-16-2007 3:39 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 56 of 675 (410612)
07-16-2007 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by Phat
07-16-2007 3:39 AM


Re: Back to basics.
I still don't see why He cannot foreknow and yet not directly or indirectly choose reality by merely foreknowing.
But that simply shows you totally misunderstand the argument, so let me try once again.
Is God the Creator?
Edited by jar, : spallin spallin

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Phat, posted 07-16-2007 3:39 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Phat, posted 07-16-2007 11:27 AM jar has replied
 Message 661 by Phat, posted 12-05-2016 10:56 AM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 58 of 675 (410622)
07-16-2007 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Phat
07-16-2007 11:27 AM


Re: Back to basics.
What the hell does "Humans were foreknown.." mean?
What the hell does "God did foreknow our unique individuality, however." mean?
What does "God is personal and not some stoic super-force that is unknowable." even have to do with the discussion?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Phat, posted 07-16-2007 11:27 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 59 of 675 (410623)
07-16-2007 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Phat
07-16-2007 11:27 AM


Re: Back to basics.
That makes no sense Phat.
He can theorize all of the potential avenues that I will decide to take, so He sees my potential future as one among many possibilities. He chooses to allow me to actualize my destiny, however.
Huh?
Does God foreknow which decisions you will make?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Phat, posted 07-16-2007 11:27 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Phat, posted 07-16-2007 12:00 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 61 of 675 (410630)
07-16-2007 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by Phat
07-16-2007 12:00 PM


Re: Back to basics.
Okay.
So God is the creator and God foreknows every decision that you will make.
Is that correct?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Phat, posted 07-16-2007 12:00 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Phat, posted 07-16-2007 12:33 PM jar has replied

  
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