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Author Topic:   Questions on "Random" Mutations
Doddy
Member (Idle past 5936 days)
Posts: 563
From: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 01-04-2007


Message 18 of 80 (410107)
07-13-2007 8:47 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by taylor_31
07-11-2007 8:05 PM


Randomness - causes and perception
taylor_31 writes:
But I thought that the probability rates of different mutations happening are different.
Well, strictly speaking they are. As already mentioned, transitions (eg purine to purine) are more common than transversions (purine to pyrimidine).
taylor_31 writes:
If that's true, then why can't you predict which mutation would occur?
Mostly just because there are so many nucleotides in any given gene. I mean, we could give a probability for every single nucleotide substitution, but then we also need to consider insertions, deletions, transposons etc...it just gets too complicated.
In this way, it much like the toss of the coin or die that was mentioned. Strictly speaking, we could indeed predict which face/number will be up just by looking at the dice or coin as it falls - it is governed by well-understood physical laws (gravity, friction, inertia, elasticity etc). But, I don't know any computer (yet) that can analyse a falling dice and predict the result, even though it is predetermined by the hand that tossed it (there might be one that can for a coin...not sure). So, because we humans just can't compute all the data we have when we see a die or coin fall, it is considered random by those who operate casinos and so on. It's not intrinsically random, but we can't predict it with any accuracy either.
It is much the same with a gene. It's just too much to consider.

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Doddy
Member (Idle past 5936 days)
Posts: 563
From: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 01-04-2007


Message 23 of 80 (410257)
07-14-2007 1:46 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by taylor_31
07-13-2007 1:11 PM


taylor_31 writes:
I hate to admit this, but I don't see how mutations could form, say, an organ like the liver or the intestines. They just seem so specialized to me, and I can't see a mutation causing such organization.
I don't see mutations causing that organisation either - at least not alone. Selection is needed to assist in that process - selection of those mutations that just happened to create something like an organ. After all, having a little pocket of your body that filters a bit of blood can make all the difference when toxins are present in the environment (which they usually are), and so selection will work to increase (or rather, keep the mutations that increase) that particular organ's function, and discard those that make a mess of things.

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Doddy
Member (Idle past 5936 days)
Posts: 563
From: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 01-04-2007


Message 42 of 80 (410431)
07-15-2007 3:33 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by taylor_31
07-14-2007 10:49 PM


Wrong Dawkins Book
taylor_31 writes:
A book that meticulously describes the history of life, preferably in layman terms, would be helpful.
In that case, you're after the wrong Dawkins book. You'd be better off with The Ancestor's Tale - it does the history of life, although it goes backwards from humans, rather than the opposite, because Dawkins wanted to stress that humans are not the aim of evolution.

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