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Author | Topic: Oh my God, I'm an Atheist !! | |||||||||||||||||||
riVeRraT Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
OK, I didn't choose not to believe. As I said I came to the realsiation that there was nothing there. No basis for beleif. I came to realise that I'd just taken it for granted and when I knew that I knew that I didn't believe any longer. I understand, and what Jesus asks is that you make a leap of faith. Which I understand is a huge problem here in this forum. It was for me too.Being on your death bed, facing non-existence anymore, is a trigger to make a leap of faith. For me, it was life, the birth of my first child that started me down a 13 year journey, until I finally felt what I believe is the Holy Spirit, and now I feel like I have a basis for belief, other than just plain faith. As far as evil goes, it is a relative term. Many children think school is evil, until they grow up, and see how important it really was.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Why can't people be like Jesus? I was talking about all the time, not just once and a while.
The whole message of Jesus is to show what plain old humans can do. I agree jar, but if you believe in what Jesus did, then you should be believing in the Holy Spirit as well, and not need an explanation as to what it is.
I'm sorry, but just what is that based on? The Knowledge of Right and Wrong is the gift from the Garden of Eden, it has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit. And what does any of that have to do with the question in the OP? The Holy Spirit convicts us when we do wrong, unless, as I pointed out, that we are deceived by the world into thinking we were right. But on your death bed, you tend to drop the ideas of this world, and your mind is clearer, and probably closer to God, and the error of your ways will be made noticeable to you. Is one way it could happen. This is not an absolute.
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
The atheist constantly talking about the idea of god is a rare breed. A strange thing that so many rare breeds could have arbitrarily come under one roof. I can't really go into any further because its OT. The thread was closed yesterday and recently reopened. I'd like to keep it open for the duration. "The problem of Christianity is not that it has been tried and found wanting, but that it is difficult and left untried" -G.K. Chesterton
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
You're saying that evangelical Christianity is not a religion of love and tolerance? You're saying that it doesn't follow Jesus? Any evangelical Christians reading this out there? It is supposed to be, but it is not. The only thing that is of love and tolerance, are people.
Yours is an inherently bigoted attitude. You're wronged by a gay, you therefore conclude all gays are bad. This type of thinking is the cause of discrimination and racism. No, I said I could have been like that, but I wasn't. Good thing I was strong when those things happened to me, or I might have been prejudice my entire life.
Why, how Christian of you and your holier-than-thou attitude! Yes, I know thanks! Except for one thing, I forgave these people before I was a "christian."
Thank you for judging! Please judge again soon! I am not judging, just pointing out facts. And you are not hard on me, just not getting what I am saying, because of your predisposition about me.
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jar Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I was talking about all the time, not just once and a while. And why can't people be just like Jesus all the time?
I agree jar, but if you believe in what Jesus did, then you should be believing in the Holy Spirit as well, and not need an explanation as to what it is. Totally false. Even if you believe there is the Holy Spirit, you still need to test it to see if what you experience really is that critter.
The Holy Spirit convicts us when we do wrong, unless, as I pointed out, that we are deceived by the world into thinking we were right. Which brings us to the question you never answer. "How do you know it is the Holy Spirit?"
But on your death bed, you tend to drop the ideas of this world, and your mind is clearer, and probably closer to God, and the error of your ways will be made noticeable to you. I'm sorry, but where did you present the evidence to support that? What exactly makes you think someone must be closer to God to have the errors of their ways made noticeable? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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ikabod Member (Idle past 4514 days) Posts: 365 From: UK Joined: |
question ..you say in the OP this is directed towards atheists .. why ... why not to anyone who does not belive in you version of god ?
(yes i know you say any can answer but you focus on atheists ) if as you state the worship of the xian god is inbuilt , then why not ask those who follow different religions if they would call on the "err correct" version . after all technically they are athiests of the xian religion . or is it the non belif asspect of the atheist you are exploring , trying to see if there is a belief on /off switch( yes sorry a crude term for something so major) ... and (ok maybe its unfair to ask this , and is not intented to take us off-topic) you put a disclaimer saying
*disclaimer: I do not blame atheists for not believing in God* firstly do you think there is blame attached to atheistium in any way .. and if so who is to blame .....maybe the atheists could sue the church for failing to convert/enlighten them ??
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
You cannot believe the above and that the Bible is God inspired, breathed and inerrant. I believe it is God inspired, but written by humans, during a certain time, and in a certain place. It's power is being able to be subjective, and hopefully, if your attitude is right, will help you grow closer to the Lord, and not affect people in a negative way. If anything, I see the bible sometimes, because of who assembled it, as a tool to control the masses, yet God's word is in there.
BTW neither does the bible or Jesus. I thought this was so simple! Yes He does. He says to enter into heaven, you must be like one of these. In other words, children are innocent.He also says that if you mess with a child, that is equivilent to messing with Him. Being on your death bed, can bring you back to a simpler time in life, such as being like a child. Because everything you did in life, may not matter at that point.
Then there would be objective evidence indicating that. When I say we were created to worship God, it also means we were created with a desire to worship. As I pointed out we can be deceived into worshiping the wrong things. We are always looking to fill a void, and that void is to worship God. Throughout our entire history, most of the human race has worshiped one thing or another. That is objective evidence that we are born with a desire to worship something. I do not know what atheists worship, but surely they search for joy somewhere. It is one your death bed, that you might question those ideas. When you are faced with non-existence. A few people have even indicated, that if it made them feel better, they would even consider it, which I think is very honest.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Um, no. The only time I think about the concept/idea of god is when I take part in a theological discussion, which happens probably less than once a week. The atheist constantly talking about the idea of god is a rare breed. Much like most christians really think about the idea of god only when they go to church. It's rare to find people who are very obsessive about a single topic. You just think they're everywhere because they are the most vocal and as such, the most noticed. Well put!
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Michael Member (Idle past 4659 days) Posts: 199 From: USA Joined: |
quote: Oh sure, why not? While I'm at it I'll put the same question to Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. Just kidding. The real answer is "no".
quote: Conditions met. Cheers.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17825 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
quote: Jesus hasn't asked me anything. And the problem with leaps of faith is that they can go in any direction with equal validity. So all you are doing is reducing salvation to a guessing game. The idea that there is a God who cares about what we believe - but wants us to arrive there by guessing is not exactly plausble. And it would be insulting if there were a real God who took a more reasonable attitude. So quite frankly I don't see myself appealing to your God - if I did it would only be the ingrained impulses of my upbringing, not because of any reality behind it or this knowledge which we're supposed to have without knowing it for reasosn you can't or won't explain. And there's no chance that I wuld appeal to Nemesis Juggernaut's God.
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Grizz Member (Idle past 5492 days) Posts: 318 Joined: |
Some atheists and agnostics have conceded that they might well experience a deathbed conversion, but that given the circumstances it would be meaningless. I must admit that this answer appears to concede the very point the question was intended to make: that atheists and agnostics do, underneath it all, believe there is a God. I don't understand why a true atheist/agnostic would feel his mind might turn in this direction at death, so I won't comment. Fear can be overpowering. We humans can be so overpowered by emotions that reason takes a back seat. For instance my fiance is terrified of flying. Recenlty I tried to get her to take a flight to Chicago instead of driving. We went over the exceedingly rare probabilty of mishaps, the attention to detail pilots employ, the nature of daily aircraft inspections and maintenance ect. She aggreed that rationally it was nothing worth worying about but in the end just couldn't bring herself to get on the plane. The fear trumped the intellect. I am an agnostic and confident in the views I do hold but I have no idea how I would react if someone told me I had 10 minutes to live. What role would my emotions play and would fear or anxiety overpower my intellect? I really don't know. I have never been in that situation.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
This is a brand new revelation to me. For some reason I had it in my mind that you were a professed Christian theist. I see this thread might be and interesting read.
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
And the problem with leaps of faith is that they can go in any direction with equal validity. Until you get something back, then it is much more than faith.
The idea that there is a God who cares about what we believe - but wants us to arrive there by guessing is not exactly plausble. Guessing?People often say in this forum "do the right thing." What is this right thing?But I guess I am getting off my own topic, sort of.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
We also know from Scripture that "that not every one who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the Kingdom." Did I ever mention, how much it bothers me that anyone could go to hell?Why God would do that? Whatever happens to someone right before their death is between them and God. Your right, I thought about that before I started this topic, but I still felt like I had to bring it up. I don't know just how honest the answer will be. Or if people can even fathom what it is they will think when it happens. I have come close to death a few times, and had some time to think about it (before I was a Christian) and like with the case of NosyNed, and loved ones, I sure hope I get to see them again.How strange is it that the majority of us want to live forever, yet our pyhsical beings won't? I wonder if people would still commit suicide if they knew they could live forever, for certain. Probably.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
But you still haven't answered the question. What is this topic trying to prove (or disprove) ? Like I said, a desparate enough person, on their deathbed, might well accept/acknowledge God. What does this mean ? Only that people will do or say anything under the right circumstances. So, where are you going with this ? Desperate, or enlightened. Did it ever occur to you that there are christians without ulterior motives?
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