Oh my God, I'm an Atheist !!

So says the bible. But what did Jesus say?I bet Jesus was probably upset when they assembled the bible, and made it a national religion. I know there are many verses that point to Jesus being the only way, but where does it say int he bible that all people will have a chance to know Jesus before the end?Doesn't it say to go and preach the gospel, and Jesus will come back after the gospel is preached to the ends of the earth? Surely some people would have dies before then, not having a fair chance of knowing Jesus.I am sorry, but your using biblical doctrine, against what we are saying, is as bad as using biblical doctrine to support slavery. After reading that statement, I guess I should have said, people who have had a fair chance of knowing Jesus. Or maybe they even know, but just don't accept it. That is why wars start. Can't we just leave it up to God, like the bible says?

It says just what I wrote.Take a read at this, the most quoted bible verse in fundie land. John 3:16. They say it is the most important verse, but all the people who use it, take it out of context. The should resort to using the complete text on the subject.16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.[g] 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."Concentrate on John 3:21.It's about doing the "right thing." A coin phrase said by manyh people here. Just where does this "right thing" come from?Just is it to believe in Jesus? That is what jar talks about all the time. I agree with him on that. I think?Edited by riVeRraT, : fixed bracket

Thanks nem, you have restored my night.

ahem, I have left it up to God, thank you very much.I think I will have to make that my sig. I take full responsibility. My only prayer is that I don't screw up divine encounters.What I do not take the blame for, is what other have done to those people, that make them see me in the wrong light. It is up to them to get past that.Too many people have "oaths" (stuck in their ways)on this board (and in life) and that is the basis for prejudice, and not being free. When true forgiveness takes place, then you are no longer bound by these oaths you have made about life. the bars can be lifted one by one, as God reveals tham to us. If your faith is strong enough, you can move a mountain. Guess I am just a pimple of faith then.But even super-powers does not mean a good life.

Do what myself? I've done everything I am supposed to do.
Now it is up to God to set people straight, including myself. Dude, I was a fundie before I even made my first post here. Give me a break.That's the problem, too many people think that just because they accept gays, and hate christians, that they are beyond prejudice, and their own form of bigotry. I call hypocrisy to the nth degree.So tell me, now that I am for gay marriage (in the state) yet I still do not understand how a person can be attracted to another person of the same sex, wtf am I doing wrong?You want me to lie, and say the bible condones homosexuality?
You want me to lie, and say, I feel it is right for myself to be gay? That if I turned gay tomorrow, that I would all of sudden not think it is a sin FOR MYSELF?Yea, all that could change on my death bed, if God shows up, and tells me I was completely wrong, and explains to me why. Or if rrhain shows up and gives me good head.

I just wanted to say, that I agree with your view.
Anyone who claims to be open minded, a necessary scientific/logical quality, should agree also.

Again I will explain everything for you, since you still seem to not get it, my position. You have me so one sided, and I am just not that way. No, but it is a possibility. Being deceived, and being in denial are
two different things, and I have expressed both. They are not absolutes as far as explanations go. Most of what I say, I do not say as an absolute. I am 41, and I feel I have a wonderful learning curve. I am no way stuck in my ways, and if life has taught me anything, it is that I can always learn. Some of what I say, I would have not believe just a few years ago. You see, this is the epitome of how you are. At no point in any of my conversations did I give you a reason to come up with this statement.
Since I have been here on this forum, and some almost 5,000 posts, did I ever give you a reason to say what you just said. If anything I have been preaching the opposite, over and over and over. I think you owe me an apology.I do not forgive beberry. I do not need to, he has not done anything wrong to me. I am a sinner just like him. If anything, I need forgiveness from him, if my way of thinking offends him.I have never called anyone a sinner here, without calling myself a sinner. Everyone sins, but everyone can be forgiven. IF I am to be forgiven, then I must forgive. If someone sins against me. Beberry has not sinned against me. I have never condemned anyone, or convicted anyone. I have never in my life said someone was going to hell.So where you are getting this stuff, must be from you, and you are the one with the problem. Maybe the mirror needs to be turned around? I don't know, you tell me. You have no idea what I am talking about. You have only assumed that gay people have done something to me, by just being gay. That is not the case. It goes into things much more personal than that, and I have never held a grudge against anyone, JUST BECAUSE THEY WERE GAY, or anything for that matter. Gay people do not offend me. Gay sex to me is disgusting, but that is my problem.I have covered all this before in other threads.I married an hispanic woman, my friends are gay, black, white, and hispanic.If anything I get along with white people the least. I can't take their bigotry, and the way they treat people of different backrounds. I often speak out against it, and I was hated for it.
shit, in most of the places I worked, I was the minority, and had a first hand experience at how they feel. In Harlem NYC I found that most black people won't even hold the door for you, just because you are white. No. I am not sure. I certainly do not like abortion, and feel the choice is when you decide to have sex, not after the fact. I consider myself pro-choice. Shit no. Gay people are outstanding people. Maybe when I was a child, very few other children tried to harm me. It's not about me, but the life they choose to create, and take a chance on creating. Yes, but not because they were gay. Because they were shitty people, who happen to be gay. I do nothing of the sort, and the fact that I don't means you need to look in the mirror. Because I am not one. First you say, you think they are wrong, then you say, they are wrong. Which one is it?If you say you think they are wrong, then that is the best thing you could say, as I have said what my opinion was. The OP was only my opinion, and my belief, under certain circumstances.If I was so set in my ways, I would not have bothered to ask the question....ABE
If there is any truth in what I say, I do not expect any immediate revelations to happen. But the truth will work it's way in, if it is truth. People can choose for themselves, and make their own destinations.Edited by riVeRraT, : No reason given.Edited by riVeRraT, : No reason given.

I was fixing that as you were posting your reply.
I feel we are all sinners.
I do not single out anyones sin, or point it out to them, they know if they are sinning or not.

The first quote is only my belief, and a possibility. As I stated just a few posts ago, it is not an absolute.The second quote is fine, because I do accept Percy's answer. That is what she believes. It was what I believed too. Some bone head making a few posts in an internet forum would not have changed my mind either.

Then I am the WINNER!!! It is not inconsistent, the second quote is a further explanation of what was said, since you automatically assume, that I hate gay people, just because they are gay.If I was less of a person, I would have. As you can see I despise that kind of behavior. I never hated gay people just because they were gay. Christian or not.Look I am not perfect, we all do harm to people sometimes, and we don't even realize we are doing it. That is something that I suffered from, and still do. The Holy Spirit has pointed out much to me, and made me more aware of how my actions affect others.
Sometimes it can be just taking the time out to better explain yourself. That is why I have not stigmatized anyone.Look, for me same sex marriage is just not marriage. That is because I believe a man should be with a woman, period. It has nothing to do with me hating gays. To me, you can't make black, white.But my priorities in life, tell me to ignore that thought. For if I impose those beliefs into our legal system, I would be a hypocrite. I treasure freedom above all else. I am attacking my very own freedom when I start telling people what they can, and cannot do, I am expect the same to happen to me.Where I live, there is no legal place to ride ATV's. All the liberals around here, have had it all banned. I pay taxes on the state land just like they do, why are they telling me, what I can, and cannot do. That is equivalent to me telling gays what they can, and cannot do.If I was unfair, and bigoted, I would not have realized this simple fact. It wouldn't matter to me, and I would probably be a bigot.I see many people in here, angry at the church (whatever church) because they were hurt by it in the past, and now take it out on all of the world religions. They don't see this as being prejudice. Like they have some righteous anger or something. It is like ikabod said, it doesn't matter what side you are on, we all seem to act the same.
Hopefully I am not acting that way, and I truly accept other peoples beliefs.People taint what I say, and put me into a category. I don't want to be in a category, from either side. I just want to be man. Like prince.The fact that people taint what I say, just because I believe in Christ, shows the battle that goes on. It only enforces my beliefs, not diminish them. But I won't let it affect who I am, and how I am with others. Eye for an eye does not rule my life. Yes that is why I was correcting what I wrote, as Parasonium was commenting on it. I reread what I wrote, and realized I wrote, what I did not mean. I think when I say we are all sinners, that I am being fair.If someone here is not a sinner, please stand up. It is a possibility, not an absolute, have you got that yet? There is no judging, facts are facts. It doesn't matter that they were gay, as I pointed out 100 times already. I have judged no-one, only shared what I went through. I do not judge people, unless I hold the same judgment up to myself. Fair is fair.I have been wrongly accused, and mis-understood, and the victim of bigotry, and hatred against fundies, and Christians. So very ironic. OMG, why are you explaining this to me. It is plainly clear from the very first post about it, that I do not hold grudges, or hate people for WHAT they are. How many times do I have to explain it, and in how many ways? It's like kindergarten.

Sorry nator, but that seems like a non-answer to me. What people think is right from wrong seems to be so diverse, that you could never come out with the coin phrase, "do the right thing."

Sorry nator, but I am not a bigot, or have I said anything bigotry.
Not understanding homosexual attraction, has nothing to do with the person doing it.It is people like you that automatically equate the two, and show your prejudice.I do not hate gay people just because they are gay, if I say it one more time....I'll....I'll....

As long as there is a good percentage of people who do understand what I am saying, and address me accordingly, then I will say it is them. I do not read everything that NJ writes. But if what NJ writes is not truth, and beberry, and Dan have the gift from God of discernment. Then they are that much closer to finding God, the real God. And delusions, which will all vanish when all of that does not matter anymore. A push away, might actually be a push closer. Most of what I say, and what Jesus said, does not have an immediate affect. It is only over time, and gathering enough of the evidence, that things can start to make sense. Plus, it is entirely up to God, to bring people to Him. we do not get there by our own efforts. If God did not make that final push in me, I would have never reached the level of faith that I now have (which is still just a very small drop, in a very large bucket).Go to biblegateway.com, and search the word truth in the bible. If what I say is truth, it will find a way to a persons heart, albeit not immediately. If it is not, then I am the one with something to learn.The biggest problem here is that it is always person vs person, or belief vs belief. I don't see things that way, and I see it all as us, the human race, just trying to get along. Can't we all just get along?If you can't get along, then you (not you) are the one with the problem, not me. Because I desire to get along with everyone.I get along with many people who do things that I do not like. I have decided in my life (at a very young age) to put those things to the side, in favor of getting along. It is like a prime directive for me or something.Still, I made oaths, and that stood in the way of getting along with people. I blame the Holy Spirit for making these things known to me, and allowing me to get past these oaths.Personal oaths, are the root of bigotry, prejudice, and hatred.Like ikabod said, religion is a whole package, and that is where the problem starts, but ikabod, the bible says love your enemy. So now what?Oh, and it is not about what affect I have on people, but what affect we have on each other.

I am always trying. It's clear you don't understand me either. I am not continuing with this vain, it has been discussed enough already.

Ok, I'm done.You answer this question, why did I say that? why did I mention what happened to me. Go back and read.All that is, is you talking things out of context, so that you can blame me for being a bigot, which I am not. No, and why would you feel that way, after everything I have explained to you. This is not a bigoted view, for the last time. I have explained it how many times? Do I need to loose valuable minutes off my life to go back and quote everything?I've explained several times that I do not dislike gay people because they are gay. I do not dislike gay people at all. Those people who just happened to be gay, did not hurt me, because they were gay.Do you get that now? I've said it more than 3 times in this thread alone.You've totally missed the point several times. The point of bringing that up, was to show, that I do not hold grudges, or associated peoples behaviors, with who or what they are.In other words, I am not a bigot. Are you so sensitive to that statement, that it interferes with what I am saying?I've run into many people like that, who let their own ideas, and prejudices block out what people are trying so desperately to tell them.Right now, I see you as prejudice, and bigoted, type of person.