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Author Topic:   Most convincing evidence for creation theory
Straggler
Member (Idle past 92 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 151 of 307 (412257)
07-24-2007 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 144 by IamJoseph
07-24-2007 8:59 AM


Re: A SOBERING THOUGHT:
Einstein was far from a theist
Netwon spent more time trying to turn things into Gold than he did considering either God or the universe.
Einstein was wrong about randomness. Nobody is perfect I guess.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by IamJoseph, posted 07-24-2007 8:59 AM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by IamJoseph, posted 07-24-2007 9:36 AM Straggler has replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1432 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 152 of 307 (412262)
07-24-2007 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 147 by IamJoseph
07-24-2007 9:17 AM


Re: What's the connection? (back to the topic?)
Its got nothing to do with my faith -
So you admit that it is not evidence for your faith and your particular brand of creationism. Thanks for clearing that up.
Now can we get to the positive evidence for your creationism?
Enjoy.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by IamJoseph, posted 07-24-2007 9:17 AM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by IamJoseph, posted 07-24-2007 9:47 AM RAZD has replied

IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3695 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 153 of 307 (412263)
07-24-2007 9:32 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by LinearAq
07-24-2007 9:21 AM


Re: Positive Evidence
quote:
As was asked before, does this mean that snowflakes are designed?
Yes. In their appearence, weight, size and purpose.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by LinearAq, posted 07-24-2007 9:21 AM LinearAq has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by Coragyps, posted 07-24-2007 10:15 AM IamJoseph has not replied

IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3695 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 154 of 307 (412268)
07-24-2007 9:36 AM
Reply to: Message 151 by Straggler
07-24-2007 9:26 AM


Re: A SOBERING THOUGHT:
quote:
Einstein was far from a theist
Netwon spent more time trying to turn things into Gold than he did considering either God or the universe.
Einstein, born and raised in a precarious time and place, evidenced his belief in his later years; Newton was a deeply religious man - his letters and essays were released recently on Creationism.
quote:
Einstein was wrong about randomness. Nobody is perfect I guess.
Not so. That he could not accept randomness in Quantumn makes him correct and vindicated.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Straggler, posted 07-24-2007 9:26 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by Straggler, posted 07-24-2007 10:39 AM IamJoseph has not replied
 Message 162 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-24-2007 11:15 AM IamJoseph has not replied
 Message 201 by Modulous, posted 07-25-2007 4:41 AM IamJoseph has replied

IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3695 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 155 of 307 (412272)
07-24-2007 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by RAZD
07-24-2007 9:29 AM


Re: What's the connection? (back to the topic?)
quote:
Now can we get to the positive evidence for your creationism?
Why do you think science has not found any cause behind the universe's emergence - or a single item's origin within the universe? This is evidence, even in a murder trial in a court, as (circumstantial) evidence by elimination. No alternative exists for creationism. Sorry if this offends your faith.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by RAZD, posted 07-24-2007 9:29 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by anglagard, posted 07-24-2007 10:05 AM IamJoseph has not replied
 Message 159 by Straggler, posted 07-24-2007 10:24 AM IamJoseph has not replied
 Message 164 by RAZD, posted 07-24-2007 11:28 AM IamJoseph has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 156 of 307 (412277)
07-24-2007 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by IamJoseph
07-23-2007 11:31 PM


Not only not positive evidence, absolute falsehoods.
I don't think I have ever read so much nonsense in one post.
In addition to including numerous falsehoods and outright nonsensical assertions, what does any of that have to do with what you quoted?
I said:
While some might see the Bible as positive evidence, they have to provide some reason for it to be given anymore weight than the Norse Mythology or any other creation myths.
Now exactly what support do you have for the Bible being given more weight than any other creation myth?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by IamJoseph, posted 07-23-2007 11:31 PM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by IamJoseph, posted 07-24-2007 11:08 PM jar has replied

anglagard
Member (Idle past 863 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 157 of 307 (412282)
07-24-2007 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 155 by IamJoseph
07-24-2007 9:47 AM


Re: What's the connection? (back to the topic?)
So essentially you are arguing that your beliefs must be true because of the 'first cause argument' which is what, 2500 years old? So how does the first cause argument support your specific belief system as opposed to any other?

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon
The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by IamJoseph, posted 07-24-2007 9:47 AM IamJoseph has not replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 761 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 158 of 307 (412286)
07-24-2007 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by IamJoseph
07-24-2007 9:32 AM


Re: Positive Evidence
Yes. In their appearence, weight, size and purpose.
Oh, so you know Doctor Pangloss?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by IamJoseph, posted 07-24-2007 9:32 AM IamJoseph has not replied

Straggler
Member (Idle past 92 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 159 of 307 (412291)
07-24-2007 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 155 by IamJoseph
07-24-2007 9:47 AM


Re: What's the connection? (back to the topic?)
Why do you think science has not found any cause behind the universe's emergence
Firstly it's a difficult question. Science is like that.
Secondly you are presuming principles of causality for which there is evidence against.
No alternative exists for creationism. Sorry if this offends your faith.
Once you get beyond linear cause and effect as anything other than a convenient and reliable model derived from the limitations of human perception, you will be able to evolve beyond these fantasies and enjoy the true wonder of nature as it really is.
Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by IamJoseph, posted 07-24-2007 9:47 AM IamJoseph has not replied

Straggler
Member (Idle past 92 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 160 of 307 (412298)
07-24-2007 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 154 by IamJoseph
07-24-2007 9:36 AM


Re: A SOBERING THOUGHT:
Not so. That he could not accept randomness in Quantumn makes him correct and vindicated
Vindicated how?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by IamJoseph, posted 07-24-2007 9:36 AM IamJoseph has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 311 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 161 of 307 (412309)
07-24-2007 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by IamJoseph
07-24-2007 2:16 AM


Ask where quarks come from, and how new particles ('virtual' particles) are made, inturn responsible for all products in the universe. Here we are told there are 'vibrations' in the eather which excite the quarks ...
No. No-one has ever told you that. You made that up.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by IamJoseph, posted 07-24-2007 2:16 AM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 190 by IamJoseph, posted 07-24-2007 11:58 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 311 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 162 of 307 (412312)
07-24-2007 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 154 by IamJoseph
07-24-2007 9:36 AM


Newton And Einstein
Einstein, born and raised in a precarious time and place, evidenced his belief in his later years;
Could you try to tell the truth more often?
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly." -- Albert Einstein, 1954, from Albert Einstein: The Human Side
"I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves. Neither can I nor would I want to conceive of an individual that survives his physical death; let feeble souls, from fear or absurd egoism, cherish such thoughts." -- Albert Einstein, The World as I See It
"I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it." -- Albert Einstein, 1954, from Albert Einstein: The Human Side
Still, at least you didn't go so far as to claim that he was a creationist.
Newton was a deeply religious man - his letters and essays were released recently on Creationism.
I suppose a man ignorant of evolution would be a creationist by default. But did he have any good arguments for it?
Not so. That he could not accept randomness in Quantumn makes him correct and vindicated.
You do know how the EPR experiment turned out, don't you?
No, I guess you don't. Why don't you look it up?
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by IamJoseph, posted 07-24-2007 9:36 AM IamJoseph has not replied

dwise1
Member
Posts: 5949
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 163 of 307 (412315)
07-24-2007 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by IamJoseph
07-24-2007 2:16 AM


Here we are told there are 'vibrations' in the eather which excite the quarks, ...
"eather" [sic]? Aether? What are you talking about? The luminiferous aether ("light-bearing aether" -- Luminiferous aether - Wikipedia) is a 19th century concept that could never be supported experimentally and was superceded in the early 20th century by Einsteinian physics.
Laddie, you're stuck in the 19th century. Time you join us in the 21st century.
PS
That Wikipedia article mentions modern geocentrists who base their beliefs on fundamentalist Christianity. You aren't one of those, are you? In that case then, you'd be stuck in a far earlier century than the 19th.
PPS
From "Modern geocentrism" (Geocentric model - Wikipedia) (my emphasis):
quote:
Most geocentrists are more extreme and reject essentially all of modern astronomy and cosmology. A belief commonly associated with this view is that the stars are much closer than they are measured to be and are embedded in a rigid substrate. This substrate is referred to as aether (not to be confused with the classical concept of luminiferous aether). This aether is believed to revolve around the Earth in one sidereal day, but this revolution varies on a yearly cycle (in order to explain observations like aberration of light). An analogy is drawn to the gyroscope, which also exhibits a much slower precession on top of its primary rotation. This viewpoint does not adequately explain frame-dependent forces such as the Coriolis force since it also rejects most of physics including the theory of general relativity.
Is this what you meant by your reference to "eather" [sic]?
Edited by dwise1, : PS
Edited by dwise1, : PPS

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by IamJoseph, posted 07-24-2007 2:16 AM IamJoseph has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1432 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 164 of 307 (412316)
07-24-2007 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 155 by IamJoseph
07-24-2007 9:47 AM


Re: What's the connection? (back to the topic?)
Why do you think science has not found any cause behind the universe's emergence - or a single item's origin within the universe? This is evidence, even in a murder trial in a court, as (circumstantial) evidence by elimination. No alternative exists for creationism.
Excuse me while I chuckle: you have had 150 plus some odd posts to provide evidence for your faith version of creationism, and all any of you can provide is:
Message 147
quote:
(1) evidence of (apparent) design is evidence of a designer
Correct. No alternative exists here, and no science exists when this is strayed from.
quote:
(2) randomness cannot occur so there must be a designer
Correct. A complexity never results from a random foundation - even allowing an eternal period of time.
You can provide no evidence for anything more than a Deist god that designed the universe to operate by his physical laws.
Not one piece of evidence for any involvement since then, because everything, down to the formation of snowflakes and the behavior of subatomic particles, is governed by those established physical laws.
Sorry if this offends your faith.
It doesn't: I'm a Deist. A highly amused Deist.
Enjoy.
Edited by RAZD, : .

Join the effort to unravel AIDS/HIV, unfold Proteomes, fight Cancer,
compare Fiocruz Genome and fight Muscular Dystrophy with Team EvC! (click)


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by IamJoseph, posted 07-24-2007 9:47 AM IamJoseph has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by bluegenes, posted 07-24-2007 3:42 PM RAZD has replied

Jaderis
Member (Idle past 3452 days)
Posts: 622
From: NY,NY
Joined: 06-16-2006


Message 165 of 307 (412354)
07-24-2007 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 147 by IamJoseph
07-24-2007 9:17 AM


Re: What's the connection? (back to the topic?)
'A COMPLEXITY CANNOT BE REASONABLY FOUNDED ON A RANDOM FOUNDATION' - Prof. Roger Premrose/author f Multiverse.
I don't mean to seem like I'm picking on ya, mate, but the only reference to Roger Pre(i?)mrose author of Multiverse was you on another forum.
Could you point me to where I might find this "Atheist Cosmologist's" work. Maybe a website or an ISBN number (I couldn't find him on Amazon either, though).
Or was he just made up in your head to give the appearance that you could back up your arguments?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by IamJoseph, posted 07-24-2007 9:17 AM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
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