Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,818 Year: 3,075/9,624 Month: 920/1,588 Week: 103/223 Day: 1/13 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Can Christians Believe That God Is Immanant In The Natural World?
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 71 of 88 (413576)
07-31-2007 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by anastasia
07-31-2007 1:27 PM


Re: Effective Cause
What I do feel is that the 'old man in the sky' concept is not doing justice to the 'real' God.
If there is a god you are almost certain to be right about that.
Nah, you just seem to assume that I care one way or another about what turns out to be truth.
I do care about the truth. At least in the sense that I want it to be true. I fnd it hard to imagine genuinely not wanting to know what the truth is (whether we actually can or not)?
I already acknowledged long ago that my religion is cultural, part of my family traditions, interesting, even fascinating, fun, etc.
It may even be true
Edited by Straggler, : Crap spelling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by anastasia, posted 07-31-2007 1:27 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by anastasia, posted 07-31-2007 3:24 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 73 of 88 (413588)
07-31-2007 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by anastasia
07-31-2007 3:24 PM


Dreamers
Science does not supply my dreams or my ideals, nor a purpose.
Except in the few cases of exceptionally blinkered and driven individuals, that is true for almost everyone.
In that sense, do I care what is ultimately true about the universe? Not as much as I care what is ultimately true about human nature.
Science probably has quite a lot to say about human nature too. But I agree that there are more fun ways to experience and learn about human nature than just studying it scientifically
I suppose I question what mankind would do if we were not happy with what the truth turned out to be, and how relevent truth is within our short lives.
I think it is human nature to seek the truth regardless of the consequences.
We seem to be a pretty resilient bunch (the human race that is) and I am sure we can cope with whatever answers are found.
We have so far.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by anastasia, posted 07-31-2007 3:24 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by anastasia, posted 07-31-2007 4:27 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 75 of 88 (413622)
07-31-2007 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by anastasia
07-31-2007 4:27 PM


Re: Dreamers
That's kind of the problem. Truth matters to us somehow even if we know we can't grasp it yet. When it comes to religion, we have to believe that we have enough knowledge of what is 'true', to be good people, and to be accountable for our actions when we are not.
When it comes to science we have to assume that we can find the answers to the most difficult questions of the day otherwise we would never have found any answers at all.
I don't really see seeking truth as a problem. It is a necessity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by anastasia, posted 07-31-2007 4:27 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by anastasia, posted 07-31-2007 7:05 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 77 of 88 (413733)
08-01-2007 3:25 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by anastasia
07-31-2007 7:05 PM


Re: Dreamers
Ignorance is seen by science as an opportunity for discovery but by religion as a reason to believe.
Imagine if the truth seekers of history had just not bothered on the grounds that it just doesn't matter?
We would barely be out of caves by now!!!
If we are all here as animals who will live, possibly breed, and die, what does the origins of the earth matter?
I guess it matters as little or as much as we want it to.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by anastasia, posted 07-31-2007 7:05 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by anastasia, posted 08-01-2007 10:29 AM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 79 of 88 (413869)
08-01-2007 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by anastasia
08-01-2007 10:29 AM


Farewell (on this thread anyway)
Well thanks for the chat.
It has been a pleasure and an education conversing with a reasonable, rational and intelligent believer for a change
I will now leave your thread to be picked up by other Christians as you originally intended. So you can rest assured that I will not hijack your thread with my particualr brand of fanatical evangelism any further.
All in all, I was wondering how much our conceptions {or misconceptions} of God influence the God/Science antagonism.
Immensely.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by anastasia, posted 08-01-2007 10:29 AM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by anastasia, posted 08-01-2007 9:15 PM Straggler has not replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 83 of 88 (413982)
08-02-2007 6:16 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by anastasia
08-02-2007 12:07 AM


Reference
A link to a Stephen Hawking lecture for laymen that you might consider looking at. It even (briefly) mentions him meeting the pope.
From the lecture
The picture Jim Hartle and I developed, of the spontaneous quantum creation of the universe, would be a bit like the formation of bubbles of steam in boiling water.
Link to the entire thing
http://www.berkeley.edu/...ses/2007/03/16_hawking_text.shtml
Happy reading

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by anastasia, posted 08-02-2007 12:07 AM anastasia has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024