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Author Topic:   Does the Christian God Play with Free Will?
6days
Inactive Junior Member


Message 2 of 83 (41549)
05-28-2003 12:57 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Rrhain
05-27-2003 10:48 PM


Perhaps this verse will help. It's often used in the context of your question, i.e. God's sovereignty.
Ephesians 2:4-10
" But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are savedand hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: that in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."
Notice that faith is "the gift of God," so, when one consider's other references, like John 6:60-71,
" Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God. Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve."
John 17:6-10, 20-23,
" I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them."
" Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me."
and Acts 4:23-31
" And being let go, they went to their own company, and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said unto them. And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is: who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things? The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, for to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done. And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word, by stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus. And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness."
one may recognize the sovereign nature of God.
It has always been interesting to me that the same 5,000 people in Acts 4:4
"Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand."
were some of the same people that were mentioned before in Acts 3:12-15
" And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk? The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; and killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses."
God's sovereignty, therefore, seems to be multifaceted and not just a question of who is ordained to life and who is not, which would seem to be the more important question to we mortals.
Cheers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Rrhain, posted 05-27-2003 10:48 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by 6days, posted 05-28-2003 1:05 AM 6days has not replied
 Message 11 by Rrhain, posted 05-30-2003 8:00 PM 6days has not replied

  
6days
Inactive Junior Member


Message 3 of 83 (41550)
05-28-2003 1:05 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by 6days
05-28-2003 12:57 AM


A Smiley Face?
I've never noticed a smiley face in that verse before but there it is. [It should be a ";" then a ")"]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by 6days, posted 05-28-2003 12:57 AM 6days has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Peter, posted 05-28-2003 7:09 AM 6days has not replied

  
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