Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 66 (9164 total)
12 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,465 Year: 3,722/9,624 Month: 593/974 Week: 206/276 Day: 46/34 Hour: 2/6


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The God of the Bible is Evil
jar
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 161 of 190 (404233)
06-07-2007 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by iceage
06-07-2007 1:10 PM


Re: Natural Disasters are God's Wrath
I think I disagree with both you and PurpleDawn on this issue. I don't believe there is scrap of god in the OT stories.
Okay, you are of course free to hold any position.
However, what you go on to say ...
They are anthropomorphisms that are the result of our tendency to over-detect the presence of ourselves in the natural/supernatural world. Like mickey mouse and faces in the clouds.
... is not too far from what I have been saying with one major exception.
I believe that ALL of the various religious writings are the work of man, inspired perhaps but still man. To say there is not a "scrap of God in the OT stories" I believe overstates the case.
If there is a GOD, then all of the stories are attempts by man to describe God, but more so the relationships between GOD and Man, Man and GOD and between Man and his fellow Man and the world we all live in.
Look at the Creation myths in Genesis. We see two entirely different Gods, one extremely transcendent but aloof, creating all there is, seen and unseen, but apart from what is created. The other is far more human, approachable, directly involved with what is created and creating by hand, through trial and error.
Those two descriptions when seen alone are mutually exclusive. If one is absolutely true, then the other is false.
But if it is examined through the context of what is being taught, then they are possible as stories, each standing on its own, each illustration differing aspects of one GOD.
Certainly there is lots of anthropomorphisms in the Bible. People wrote the stories. There is also lots of ignorance, attempts to explain the world we live in within the context of the knowledge at the time.
There is a book by Gordon R. Dickson, it was the sequel to The Dragon and the George but the name escapes me at the moment.
In the story the protagonist is talking about magic with S. Carolinus, a AAA+ mage as opposed to S carolinus carolinus, also a powerful magician.
The Mage points out that at one time all things were magic. Gradually over time some forms of magic became so well known that they moved from the realm of great secret to common knowledge. The example given was that a hunter needed two skins attached to make a cape. He went to the wise woman of the village who knew the magic of attaching skins.
She said "Yes, I can do it. But it is great magic and you must leave the hides with me. If you try to watch you will surely be struck by lightening during the next storm." She then took the hides into the cave and sewed them together.
At that time, sewing was "magic", Powerful magic. Only as people gained knowledge did it move from the realm of magic to the commonplace.
And, as is pointed out in the story, the best magic to use is that magic that has moved into the realm of the commonplace.
Yet it is still, magic.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by iceage, posted 06-07-2007 1:10 PM iceage has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 180 of 190 (415525)
08-10-2007 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by Jon Paine
08-10-2007 3:40 PM


Re: Why are evil acts applauded in the Bible?
How is an evil act applauded in that story?
Have you actually read Judges? Did you read the very next chapter?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by Jon Paine, posted 08-10-2007 3:40 PM Jon Paine has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by Jon Paine, posted 08-10-2007 4:23 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 182 of 190 (415551)
08-10-2007 7:09 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by Jon Paine
08-10-2007 4:23 PM


Re: Why are evil acts applauded in the Bible?
You are right; the word "applauded" is inappropriate. I stand corrected. Still the host that offered up these women to be raped is never judged, as far as I can see. And yes, on your advice, I did read the next chapter.
Good. Then as you can see, the behavior of the rapists was not even condoned, much less applauded.
These stories are part of nation State and Peoples building, of tribal and intra-tribal warfare. It is told to explain the destruction of the Tribe of Benjamin by other Hebrew Tribes and is very likely also a Victors Tale, and so likely has about as much factual material as we find in the posters of WWI or WWII.
We also need to acknowledge the place of women throughout history. They were chattel, movable and transferable personal property. Set against that was an inordinate view of hospitality which said that a guest must be kept sacrosanct. The evil depicted was not the rape of the concubine but the insult to the guest.
If you are going to continue posting these snippets, it is probably more productive if you present them in context instead of simply quotemining a source, particularly a source with a known and stated purpose.
A short aside that is critical and found in this story is the mention of Jebus, which was in existence at the time but NOT an Israelite town.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Jon Paine, posted 08-10-2007 4:23 PM Jon Paine has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024