Deism in the Dock

Ringo,I agree with you on this concerning deism.What do you think about the level of personal accountability, responsibility, and morality of someone who after having done many bad things in their life tells you they are going to heaven because SOMEONE else died for their sins?Didn't Constantine wait till the later part of his life to get baptized to take avantage of this loophole?(along w/other early Christians)

Not picking on you Mod, this is just the most recent statement, found all through these 16 pages that we can’t know anything about God, or only through revelation and dusty old books.
There is another way. NJ is not the only one.Now I’m a Deist. God exists as an actual person, but he is doing absolutely nothing in this universe, and didn’t make it (I believe). So I believe there is no physical evidence you can point to showing God’s existence. I am of course willing to consider that I’m wrong, so just provide some evidence for me to consider.You might ask how I could have any basis other than blind faith to hold this opinion that God exists.Well I do, but what everyone here appears to be doing is only looking at this from their viewpoint, culture and particular belief system which they hold to be correct or true.Try assuming all other belief systems, including mine, are true. Do that and then consider what kind of information should be available here to prove it. What evidence should be available to “prove” Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, Christianity . . etc?Do we see that evidence here? Are there different types of evidence that might be available for the different belief systems? For instance, if some religion says that God is doing things in this universe right now (or in the past, like say a worldwide flood) we should be able to spot evidence of that, right? BTW I would consider all the types of evidence that would be acceptable in a court of law, and perhaps others as well. DO NOT leave out forms or types of evidence you do not believe at present. That would just show your bias (a thing very much in evidence on this board).I was raised a Roman Catholic and graduated from Catholic grade school and a Jesuit High School. By 16 I was an atheist and remained one until I was 37. I then became a Deist.A bit later I will post why. Can anyone figure out what I did that made me change my view?Edited by petrophysics, : No reason given.

BTW I agree completely with your statements in post #244.Mod says: Suppose I asked you to prove to yourself that you were born, BUT you cannot use:
1. Anything anyone tells you (they could be trying to con you)
2. Any papers, documents, or photos (all can be faked)
3. Reason or logic of any kind (you might think it reasonable
That because others have been born, you were too, but it's not,
and you can't use it.)As far as I know there is only one thing left that you can do to prove to yourself that you were born. You do it all the time, in fact if you were unable to do it you could probably not function in society. People do it in court when they testify, when they take a test at school. Everyone does it. They just never thought of using it to discover themselves, or that they were born, OR that God exists.When I was 19 I was doing a lot of thinking about my life and "who or what exactly am I?" and "What the hell am I doing here?” During doing this I suddenly remembered (well actually relived, like I was in a movie) something that happened to me when I was 7. In thinking about it I saw all the ways this had affected my thinking, biased data collection, and affected my interactions with others. It changed the way I was to a considerable degree. A couple of weeks later it occurred to me, what if there were other subconscious memories like this affecting my thinking and attitudes.So I decided to start looking for them as I don't like things affecting my thinking I don't know about. Well I found more and they didn't sometimes just affect your thinking they could affect your body, giving you aches and pains that have no physical cause. (Unless you have a brain tumor this is where most headaches come from) My only concern in doing this was finding who and what exactly I was.Took me 15 years to remember/relive being born, and remembering it
cured a sinus problem I had had all my life (wasn't even looking or thinking to do that). A side benefit is I have not had a single headache in 24 years. Even remembered prenatal stuff ( which resulted in my no longer supporting or being a member of NARAL).Let me pause for a second. Everything I have discovered to this point is nothing new and can be found in the peer reviewed Psych literature or a general psychology textbook. Memories which occurred with people who I could check on them about, I did. Mostly my mom, dad, older brother and my uncle Dan who used to baby sit when I was small.Now, I'm not sure that I have gotten everything so I kept looking. One day I relive the last time I died. France 1943, trying to get home in a hurry and a bomb hits the building to my right and I get blown through the air, lived for a few moments and then cashed it in. Then the heart attack trying to get that fu*king ox cart unstuck from the mud in SE Poland, dead face down in the mud, and others, and others and others . . ..This led me to the conclusion that I am a spiritual being who has lived and died many times. So there I am in my mid thirties an atheist who is a spiritual being who has lived and died countless times. Still no evidence for God.To cut to the chase, one day I found myself re-experiencing leaving God and my decision to do so. “Where” God is there is no space and no time. God is not in this universe. Yes, I decided to leave God. This was the result of a non-understanding on my part. I am no where near as intelligent or knowing as God. God did not wish me to do this and there was an immense outpouring of compassion and understanding. At the time I did not understand, in retrospect I realize God knew all of the pain, suffering, sickness, death and insanity I would end up enduring for billions of years. This was not a smart decision.This is why I’m a Deist. I’m 58 and still looking, always more to know about yourself, plus I have a problem to solve. How exactly do I get the hell out of here and back to God.
I have some ideas, but am not sure.All the good and evil in this universe is done by us. You and I are here because we did something stupid, but it was our decision and now it is our responsibility. Remember that the next time something bad happens to you or to others.BTW does God punish you for doing wrong? No, you punish yourself, and have been for a long, long time.Don’t believe what I have said here. I find just believing, like in a religion you know about by reading, doesn’t change much in the world. Go LOOK yourself and see what you find out.