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Author Topic:   The God of the Bible is Evil
Jon Paine
Member (Idle past 4418 days)
Posts: 65
From: Los Angeles, California
Joined: 05-24-2007


Message 181 of 190 (415532)
08-10-2007 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by jar
08-10-2007 4:02 PM


Re: Why are evil acts applauded in the Bible?
You are right; the word "applauded" is inappropriate. I stand corrected. Still the host that offered up these women to be raped is never judged, as far as I can see. And yes, on your advice, I did read the next chapter.

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 Message 180 by jar, posted 08-10-2007 4:02 PM jar has responded

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jar
Member
Posts: 31783
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 182 of 190 (415551)
08-10-2007 7:09 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by Jon Paine
08-10-2007 4:23 PM


Re: Why are evil acts applauded in the Bible?
You are right; the word "applauded" is inappropriate. I stand corrected. Still the host that offered up these women to be raped is never judged, as far as I can see. And yes, on your advice, I did read the next chapter.

Good. Then as you can see, the behavior of the rapists was not even condoned, much less applauded.

These stories are part of nation State and Peoples building, of tribal and intra-tribal warfare. It is told to explain the destruction of the Tribe of Benjamin by other Hebrew Tribes and is very likely also a Victors Tale, and so likely has about as much factual material as we find in the posters of WWI or WWII.

We also need to acknowledge the place of women throughout history. They were chattel, movable and transferable personal property. Set against that was an inordinate view of hospitality which said that a guest must be kept sacrosanct. The evil depicted was not the rape of the concubine but the insult to the guest.

If you are going to continue posting these snippets, it is probably more productive if you present them in context instead of simply quotemining a source, particularly a source with a known and stated purpose.

A short aside that is critical and found in this story is the mention of Jebus, which was in existence at the time but NOT an Israelite town.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1391 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 183 of 190 (415685)
08-11-2007 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jon Paine
05-27-2007 8:52 AM


Jon Paine writes:

The God of the Bible is Evil

Title presupposes guilt. This tells us that your mind is made up and closed for business.

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

This is not a legitimate translation; rather it is a deliberate misrepresentation undoubtedly produced by Atheists and persons who believe in Darwinism.

The only real issue is why do you think it is legitimate?

I would very much like to defend the Biblical Deity concerning the charges brought against Him. For this to happen the Prosecution would need to use any legitimate translation, like the KJV, RSV or even the NIV (which is illegitimate concerning the book of Revelation).

"Your Honor, I move that all charges against my Client be dismissed in the interest of justice until the Prosecution shows probable cause via a legitimate witness [translation]."

Ray

Edited by Cold Foreign Object, : No reason given.


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iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4258 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 184 of 190 (415741)
08-11-2007 8:01 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by Cold Foreign Object
08-11-2007 3:13 PM


Same verse only worse
KJV writes:

9:5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:

9:6 Slay utterly old [and] young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom [is] the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which [were] before the house.

9:7 And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.

As if the translation is going to help here.

Further when one understands that only men received the mark

Ezek 9:4 writes:

And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

Quite normal bronze-age human mentality not divinity.

Ray writes:

This is not a legitimate translation; rather it is a deliberate misrepresentation undoubtedly produced by Atheists and persons who believe in Darwinism.

Undoubtedly... ya. Please keep your prejudices to yourself! "Darwinism" has no context in this discussion.


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Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 185 of 190 (415803)
08-12-2007 8:06 AM
Reply to: Message 183 by Cold Foreign Object
08-11-2007 3:13 PM


Ray:

This is not a legitimate translation; rather it is a deliberate misrepresentation undoubtedly produced by Atheists and persons who believe in Darwinism.

There goes that dang troll alarm again...


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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1391 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 186 of 190 (415865)
08-12-2007 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by iceage
08-11-2007 8:01 PM


Re: Same verse only worse
Same verse only worse

There are huge differences, but I am not one to quibble over synonyms.

You have pasted a legitimate translation as I asked, now:

"Your Honor, I am ready to defend my Client against the charge of evil. If and when the Prosecution states their case, based on the reliable witness of the KJV - the defense is ready to show the Court that the charge is groundless."

Ray


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iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4258 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 187 of 190 (415879)
08-12-2007 6:57 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by Cold Foreign Object
08-12-2007 5:23 PM


Re: Same verse only worse
Ray writes:

I am ready to defend my Client against the charge of evil.

I know it is a rhetorical ploy but to be honest I feel a little uncomfortable debating someone who thinks that God is their client.

Further I feel a little uncomfortable debating "God of Bible" like this is some real entity. The topic is "The God of the Bible is Evil". However, I think what was meant was that "The vision of God, as described in the Bible, is Evil".

In the selected quoted text we see a deity supposedly commanding someone to place a protective mark on some men. Others are supposedly commanded by this deity to kill people without question. Here are some questions to consider...

  • Why can't God mark these evil-doing people himself since he can read lives and know without question which are evil and deserving of death?

  • Why does God need holy hit men? Why can't God himself take care of these evil-doers himself. We are talking about the being who created the wonders of this universe small and great. Why do passages like this (there are many others) limit God's ability so that he requires others to do his dirty work.

  • Why are just the men considered for protection but the supposed order from God explicitly states the killing of all including little children, maids and women.

    Does this not go against "thou shall not murder" or is the full commandment more like this "thou shall not murder... unless some gray beard tells you that the lord said it is ok, in which case infants, children, and pregnant women should receive no mercy"

    One last thought. This holy ordained murder is precisely the mode of belief that sustains Muslim extremism today. Today's Jihadist really believe they are doing God's work. They really believe that God needs them to take infidel life. They worship the same twisted vision of God. This is evil.

    Edited by iceage, : Added quote

    Edited by iceage, : One last note


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    pelican
    Member (Idle past 3329 days)
    Posts: 781
    From: australia
    Joined: 05-27-2007


    Message 188 of 190 (416805)
    08-17-2007 10:43 PM
    Reply to: Message 187 by iceage
    08-12-2007 6:57 PM


    Re: Same verse only worse
    Did god not create evil? The version of god I believe in created everything including evil, but that is not who or what god is. Evil was created so that we may know good, which god also created, but god can only be both or neither. All or nothing.
    Categorizing god isn't a good move even if it's good. If you are earnestly seeking god you won't find her in the holy books.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 187 by iceage, posted 08-12-2007 6:57 PM iceage has responded

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    iceage 
    Suspended Member (Idle past 4258 days)
    Posts: 1024
    From: Pacific Northwest
    Joined: 09-08-2003


    Message 189 of 190 (416810)
    08-18-2007 12:19 AM
    Reply to: Message 188 by pelican
    08-17-2007 10:43 PM


    Re: Same verse only worse
    dameeva writes:

    Evil was created so that we may know good

    Why? we don't need darkness to know what light is? Did God create evil just so that there was tension and interest in the plot?

    dameeva writes:

    version of God I believe in created everything including evil, but that is not who or what god is.... Categorizing god isn't a good move

    I think you just did what you said is not a good move.

    Note the topic is really about the "God of the Bible" and not the entity who really created the universe.

    dameeva writes:

    If you are earnestly seeking god you won't find her in the holy books.

    Now that is a true and wise statement.


    This message is a reply to:
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    pelican
    Member (Idle past 3329 days)
    Posts: 781
    From: australia
    Joined: 05-27-2007


    Message 190 of 190 (416855)
    08-18-2007 6:32 AM
    Reply to: Message 189 by iceage
    08-18-2007 12:19 AM


    Re: Same verse only worse
    I think we do need darkness to know light. I think we do need hot to know cold. I think we do need small to know large. However, I see I am off topic as I am not referring to the god of the bible. I'll leave that horror story to you. AARRGGGHHH!

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