Was the destruction of the twin towers scientifically possible on 9/11

The towers fell down because big planes flew into them causing fires that eventually weakened them to the point that they could not support their own weight. We know this is the case rather than controlled demo, because in controlled demo, all the floors of the buildings collapse at the same time. The WTC towers fell from the top down.We know it was the weight of the floors above the weakened points of impact because the tower that was hit second fell first. It fell first because the point of impact was lower in the building, leaving more weight above the point of impact resulting in a critical failure sooner than in the first hit building.{AbE} Hear hear, Dr. A!Edited by subbie, : In praise of the immediately previous post.

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

In my own humble opinion, there is no need to make up crazy convuluted theories about the wrongdoings of governments (our own and others) when what they really do is much more simple and much[/i] more frightening. Concocting massive conspiracy theories distracts many people from the implications of what is really happening all around them.Specifics would be quite off-topic, but I will leave you with this to ponder.

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"You are metaphysicians. You can prove anything by metaphysics; and having done so, every metaphysician can prove every other metaphysician wrong--to his own satisfaction. You are anarchists in the realm of thought. And you are mad cosmos-makers. Each of you dwells in a cosmos of his own making, created out of his own fancies and desires. You do not know the real world in which you live, and your thinking has no place in the real world except in so far as it is phenomena of mental aberration." -The Iron Heel by Jack London

There was no molten steel: World Trade Center Investigation | NISTWhat you're seeing in the video is just flaming ash.Temperatures were not hot enough to liquify steel; of course, about 500 degrees shy of its melting point, steel loses all but 10% of its original strength, like softening chocolate. It might have been molten aluminum from the airframe of the 747, but I doubt it.Either way, of course, it's irrelevant - explosives don't melt steel, either. Thermite just isn't a reasonable explanation since it has to burn in continuous contact in order to cut; that's impossible to achieve against a vertical support beam. That's WTC 6 in the center; WTC 7 is the hole in the upper right. It doesn't look like it came down "perfect" to me. It looks like it came down in a heap after being crushed by falling debris. Have you read it? Maybe you should before you make claims about what is or isn't in the report.Edited by crashfrog, : No reason given.Edited by Admin, : Narrow the image.

Conspiracy theorists are a type of True Believer, and as Dr. Adequate noted, there's a lot of similarity from one True Believer to the next. If history is any guide, Lost-apathy cannot be persuaded out of his belief in a 911 conspiracy. Almost no True Believer ever is persuaded away from their belief of choice.It isn't widely known today that speculation about conspiracies was rife in the decades after Lincoln was shot, but these conspiracy theories died away as the people for whom this event loomed large in their lives themselves died. The same will eventually be true of the Kennedy assassination. Kennedy assassination conspiracy conventions look like retiree communities, and as these people die so will these theories.Evidence is the framework of history, and so conspiracy theories, constructed as they are from a lack of evidence, are like hollow buildings with no internal support, or like Star Wars conventions if the attendees really believed in those battles from "a long time ago and in a galaxy far, far away..."The reasons people become obsessed with conspiracy theories are probably as varied as the theories themselves, but we shouldn't be surprised at their wide spread acceptance. Day-to-day experience with the people around us, and particularly with people on the Internet, provides a wealth of evidence that great numbers of people believe truly strange things. The list of strange beliefs unsupported by evidence is probably endless, I won't even attempt a recitation.In mid-2006 a listener to The Skeptics Guide to the Universe podcast asked if there were any areas of pseudoscience where the skeptics had been wrong. The host, Stephen J. Novella, recited a list of pseudosciences that skeptics were debunking in the 1960s, and it's the same list as today, Bigfoot, alien abductions, ESP, telekinesis, past lives and creationism to name just a few. All pseudosciences remain frozen at the same stage of progress because they have no evidence to drive them forward.And that is the case here with the 911 conspiracy. True believers will never give up their pet conspiracy theory no matter how much evidence is presented, because for them the conclusions are not a matter of evidence, they're a matter of fact, and for them it is only a matter twisting the evidence within their own minds to fit that fact. They cannot observe this process happening within them, it can only be observed from the outside, and everyone else can rebut and chuckle and cite evidence and scoff and argue and poke fun, but it won't make a lick of difference to the True Believer. He knows what happened, and no amount of evidence or argument or ridicule can change his mind.So just nod your heads and tiptoe softly from the room.--PercyEdited by Percy, : Grammar.Edited by Percy, : Typos.

Not only that, but the credibility of these other implications are diminished in the minds of many by nonsense such as this.

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I've done everything the Bible says, even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff! -- Ned Flanders

So,,, 50th messages on why some clueless idiot has come to an idiotic conclusion on the basis of nothing,Seriously, why do we bother?

I am sorry it took me so long to notice this post, but for future reference, we do not like to go by first names or birth names at EvC, unless the member has used his or her real name or intimated that they are ok with the use of their real name.I can not control what information you glean about your fellow debators while online, but I do prefer if you honor everyone's privacy as much as possible here, and avoid the temptation to get a 'leg up' on your opponent by posting irrelevent glimpses into their lives. The arguments should speak for or against themselves.

Cheap shot. I know.
My bad.

Yes this may be the nature of it, however you must realize that there are unanswered questions about 911 that everyone here refuses to give even a slight look at. I'm not saying it was the government, im not saying that we are sure about anything. However what I am sure of is that people are not perfect. We all have a different perspectives on things. This causes misunderstandings in science and history. Throughout history the majority have been wrong countless times about what is factual and what is false. People believed the world was flat even when greek philosophers figured it out a long time ago, people believed Noah actually built an arc with every type of animal we have today, people believed there were actual witches. The ignorance of society is when people don't consider all possibilities, which is what science is about. My reasoning is that after researching both sides, "btw I did read the 911 commission report" read it here http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf
I came to the conclusion that it is very hard to distinguish which side has more evidence supporting it. The difference between me and everyone else is that I actually have researched both sides thoroughly. And the mainstream explanation does not add up. Even within our government they don't even pay attention to what their side is.The commission report says that the reason they attacked us is because were over there killing their people, supporting Israel who is also killing their people. Yet our government remains there, still supports Israel, and forces us into fear of these terrorist. We buy into this shit. The majority of our society believes that the reason we were attacked is because they are jealous of our freedom and wealth. Its just pathetic when I see people buying into this terrorism shit. They hate us because we are over there killing their people. Our foreign policy needs to be changed.You mentioned the JFK assasination. This theory although convincing does not have nearly enough evidence to be able to come to any conclusion. If you ever watch non biased media, such as media in other countries, you will see that they don't buy into a lot of our American bullshit. 911 conspiracies have actually gotten a lot of mainstream media attention in other countries.All I'm saying is that we need to address some of these questions in a civil matter and push for a new independent investigation of 911.Edited by lost-apathy, : No reason given.

Really? Because it seems like we've been answering your questions as we go.Of course, if you're asking ridiculous stuff like "why did molten lava pour out of WTC 1 and 2?" then the only real answer is that there's something very wrong with you which prevents you from recognizing bullshit when it's presented, steaming, on a plate before you. Well, no, you haven't. You've heard the conspiracy side. Did you read the NIST investigation I linked to, earlier? How do you respond to its points? I;m not disagreeing - but 9/11 doesn't have to be an inside job for that to be true.Indeed, if it your conspiracy theories are true, doesn't that undercut your point? You say that terrorists caused 9/11 happened because we're over there killing people; but isn't your position that terrorists didn't cause 9/11?How do you reconcile these two positions? How do you justify the use of 9/11 as an example of decades of failed terror policy when you're claiming 9/11 didn't have anything to do with terrorists?

People still believe these things, including, incredibly enough, a flat earth: The Flat Earth Society and The Flat Earth Society ForumsFundamentally, all conspiracy theorists have the same disease, and for the most part there is no cure. Whatever the particular conspiracy theory of choice is for someone, there's no talking them out of it. Something's gone haywire in their mind that affects their ability to rationally assess evidence. People have been citing you evidence all along in this thread, but it's had no effect because it isn't evidence that causes a conspiracy theory to turn someone into a True Believer, it's something else.Unfortunately, we don't know what that something else is. If we did then we might be able to remedy the gullibility of people who believe in things like past lives, therapeutic touch, homeopathy, magnetic bracelets and clairvoyance, to mention just a few.But there's usually nothing to be done for these people. All you can do is combat the nonsense by putting accurate information out there in the hopes that fewer people might catch the disease.--Percy

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If we did then we might be able to remedy the gullibility of people who believe in things like past lives, therapeutic touch, homeopathy, magnetic bracelets and clairvoyance, to mention just a few.

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I'm curious why you don't mention Creationism? Seems the obvious choice here.Btw, those Flat Earth forums made my head hurt.

There absolutely are unanswered questions about 9/11. Certainly not anything you are raising, but anytime there's a catastrophic event of this nature, there are going to be anomalies, mysteries, and some things that just don't look right.But the question isn't just whether there are anomalies, but whether the answers proffered make more sense than the "official" explanation that you are protesting against.You claim that it's obvious that the buildings fell because of controlled demolition. If this is so, then all of the following things are true:The firefighters who were in the buildings cannot see the obvious evidence of this, or they are complicit in the cover-up of the deaths of 3,000 some people, including some of their fellow firefighters.The media is ignoring the biggest story in the history of the world.Whoever is responsible for the demolition crashed two jet planes full of people who are no longer to be found into the buildings to cover the explosions.The pilots managed to hit each of the two buildings in the exact spot where the explosives were rigged to begin the collapse, even though those spots were different in the two buildings.None of the dozens, 100s or even 1,000s of people who must have been involved in the planning and execution of the demolition has spilled the beans.Now, I have looked at dozens of websites put together by different conspiracy groups. I have watched the "Loose Change" video. I have read papers written by people with scientific degrees. None of them provided any answers that were nearly compelling enough for me to accept them and be willing to live with the questions raised above. Believe me, it has nothing to do with blindly accepting what the government tells me. If good ole dumbya told me in person that he was alive, I wouldn't believe him without checking for a pulse. The man's a liar. But the fact of the matter is that anyone who suggests that the towers came down through demolition raises more questions, and more difficult questions, than any that they answer.

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

Hm this is the first non hostile post that brings up some good questions.

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The firefighters who were in the buildings cannot see the obvious evidence of this, or they are complicit in the cover-up of the deaths of 3,000 some people, including some of their fellow firefighters.

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They could have known, we don't know.

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The media is ignoring the biggest story in the history of the world.

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Correction, The united states mainstream media is ignoring the biggest story in the history of the world.

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Whoever is responsible for the demolition crashed two jet planes full of people who are no longer to be found into the buildings to cover the explosions.

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Yup, however they could have been empty without people, they could have been osama bin ladens men just like they say. Osama bin laden could have planted the explosions. We do not know.

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The pilots managed to hit each of the two buildings in the exact spot where the explosives were rigged to begin the collapse, even though those spots were different in the two buildings.

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In order to demolish a building there has to be explosives in multiple areas of the building. There is such thing as remote controls, where you send a signal when to activate something.

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None of the dozens, 100s or even 1,000s of people who must have been involved in the planning and execution of the demolition has spilled the beans.

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People have been spilling the beans... Go here, it has quotes of government officials, scientists, and 9/11 surviors.
Patriots Question 9/11 - Responsible Criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report

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Now, I have looked at dozens of websites put together by different conspiracy groups. I have watched the "Loose Change" video. I have read papers written by people with scientific degrees. None of them provided any answers that were nearly compelling enough for me to accept them and be willing to live with the questions raised above. Believe me, it has nothing to do with blindly accepting what the government tells me. If good ole dumbya told me in person that he was alive, I wouldn't believe him without checking for a pulse. The man's a liar. But the fact of the matter is that anyone who suggests that the towers came down through demolition raises more questions, and more difficult questions, than any that they answer.

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We can only answer the simple questions first before we can answer the hard ones.I didn't like loose change so much. It focused on assumptions and not so much the science.Here's a video I liked, it starts with live clips of 911, then shifts to professors giving presentations.
September 11th Revisited: Were explosives used?If you can manage through that whole movie paying close attention, I am almost positive it will change your mind at least a littleI just want to ask one last question. How did WTC 7 collapse. No one has given me a reasonable explanation. One person accused me of not reading the 911 commission report, one person said it was from all the debris falling onto it. The report doesn't even mention this building.Here are some videos of it collapsing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58h0LjdMry0Now watch that video. Watch how it collapses, and tell me again that it is because of falling debris.Edited by lost-apathy, : No reason given.

I'm telling you again that it was because of falling debris. After being hit by that much material, how could it not collapse?