AL (Artificial Life) and the people who love it

You're supposed to have enough critical thinking skills to realize that wasn't god, just a bad burrito.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I could also not know how to design one, and still work on one. so realistically I will say, I do not fully understand how it works, only partially.How did you make the leap, and say no clue. None of what I am saying leads towards not knowing a clue. I am only being realistic and saying, we don't know it all, or will we ever in this lifetime.

I am very much on topic when I am answering questions. If you want to pick on someone, pick on the person who asked it.

Science by itself is a wonderful concept, and deals with truth. I've come to realize that if God is truth, and science is truth, then there must be a wy to tie them together.Where we fall short is what we do with both of those things. With religion, maybe having the worse hand in the deal.I am not satisfied with religion, or the way people use science, practically. Also the obnoxiousness when it comes to thinking we somehow are on this high level of knowledge, when the truth is we don't know crap, and live on a little tiny spec in the universe.
some of the doctors I've had to deal with in the past are perfect examples of this, thinking they somehow "know it all." Even if they don't come out and say it (one did) they sure do act that way.
One day science says wine is not good for you, then after further study, it is now good for you.I neither need a Priest telling me if I am going to hell, just like I don't need rrhain pretending to know where life came from, when he can't even tell me exactly how gravity works.

jar, you've just pushed me over the edge. That was the nail in the coffin. I am fully convinced you don't know shit.You realize how you've just made yourself appear by saying that? What makes your idea of God, so much mightier than mine? You can go you know what.In about 95% of what you say on this forum, I see nothing, emptiness. You talk and talk, but never say anything.But it is all the gospel according to jar, or jar's cult of christian ignorance.I feel God everyday, yet I do not eat burritos everyday, go figure.In the name of the Father Son, and Holy Burrito, amen.

"He did it first!" is not an excuse, rat.Cut it out. If I put blue food coloring in a glass of water and then red food coloring in a glass of water, the water turns purple. I created purple.If I put this chemical in a big warm pool and then that chemical in a big warm pool, they spontaneously combine to form life. Or, as Rrhain so elegantly put it ... Got it?Edited by molbiogirl, : No reason given.

It is irrelevant how I appear, the readers will make their own decisions on that, what we were discussing is the God you create and describe.You said: That implies that regardless of all the evidence, just because you get some feeling you attribute to the god you create, Evolution suddenly is wrong.Yet when I have asked you "How do you know it is God?", you have NEVER been able to explain just what the mechanism is; how someone tells god from a bad burrito.Further, since there is NOTHING in either Evolution or the Theory of Evolution that in anyway relates to whether there is a God or even whether or not God is the Creator, it is also either a really false statement or the god you are talking about is some little trickster out to con the rubes.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

My problem is with the word create, which in this thread has two different meanings.

When you say that, you show the readers your ignorance. You've also put a whole book of words in my mouth. You have God in a box.

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Evolve can be a relative term,

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Not in the context of this discussion, it isn't.the only definition used in this thread has been Biological Evolution.Parasomnium can't evolve, since individuals don't evolve.

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so you mean to tell me you haven't changed at all since you were young?

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This is a nonsensical statement, given the context of Biological Evolution.

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Plus planning on reproducing, and be able to, are two separate issues.

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Yes.In the context of Biological Evolution, reproduction is key.

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What everyone here still doesn't seem to get is that I was an evolutionist for 38 years, then I felt God.

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Isn't it also possible that you felt a demon that tricked you into thinking you were feeling God? Isn't it possible that this demon is making you doubt the findings of science, which is making you anti-science, and therefore an agent of Satan?

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Either God doesn't exist, and I am just a crazy person, or science might have some things wrong.

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What does God have to do with science?Or are you confusing God with religious myth?

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Given the poor track record of both, I am left hanging in limbo.

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the poor track record of science? Excuse me, but science has an excellent track record of becoming righter and righter and righter about the nature of, well, nature.

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Probably what amazes me the most is how one sided everyone is, doesn't matter your side.

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If I am on a side it is the side of rationality, empiricism, and evidence. All of these things work very well regardless of belief or faith of the person using them.It isn't my fault that such things are in short supply among religions.

riVeRraT responds to me:

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When you need a quarter for the vending machine, does it matter if it came from the Denver mint as opposed to the Philadelphia mint? Does it matter if it was last used for a video game as opposed to a washing machine?

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Well yea. It sure does matter.

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Oh? Why? Does the vending machine behave differently to Denver quarters as opposed to Philly quarters? If not, then how can you say that it matters?

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These are not separate subjects IMO.

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I think they're connected, too. That's why I asked. The point I am making is that if the vending machine doesn't care what mint the quarter came from, then it is invalid to say that there is a difference between the two.

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IF life can be created from what is already existing, then we need to understand why. Not just say that it can.

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But the point you're missing is that you're moved beyond what you originally set out to do. The vending machine doesn't care where the quarters come from. In order to be considered a valid coin, the only things that matter are things like weight, size, magnetic properties, etc.That doesn't mean there's nothing to be gained by tracing the coins back to their origins, but it does mean that their origins make no difference to their usage.You're trying to make biology answer a question of physics. Do you not see why that's a silly thing to do? When was the last time you used a wooden paintbrush as a magnet? They have their uses, but the former simply cannot function as the latter and it is ridiculous to demand that it must.

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God took "unlife" and made it into life. So really what question are we answering?

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Can it be done through physical processes? That's it. That's all the tools we are using can answer for us. If you want to answer another question, you'll need to switch to a different toolset.Biology is not physics and you cannot use biology to answer a question of physics.

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Did God create everything so that it can happen this way?

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That's a question for philosophy, not science.

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Or did it just come from nowhere.

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Is there anything that can happen on its own?

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rrhain, the more we learn, the less we know. You, or no other person living is EVER going to find out all the answers to where we came from. Only develop more questions.

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Ah, yes, one of the last refuges of those with no argument: Claim that because we don't know everything, that means we don't know anything.

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No, it doesn't, because it wasn't designed. It happened chemically, all on its own.

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No, not all on its own.

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What else other than chemistry was going on in the test tube? No humans were in there, so we know that humans had nothing to do with it. Was it god? When reagents react, do the chemical bonds rearrange themselves because a conscious, personal, deliberate entity grabs hold of the electrons and moves them? Or does it happen on its own?Is there anything that happens on its own?

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Is there anything that happens on its own?

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Nothing happens without gravity.

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Non sequitur. Let's try again:Is there anything that happens on its own? For example, does gravity happen on its own?

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

riVeRraT writes:

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I don't need rrhain pretending to know where life came from

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I never said I did and I demand that you show me the exact quote where I even hinted that I did.It really is that important, riVeRraT.

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

riVeRraT responds to jar:

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What makes your idea of God, so much mightier than mine?

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Probably the same attitude that makes you think that your idea of god is so much mightier than everybody else's. If you want, I can drag up your quotes regarding Judaism.

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

riVeRraT responds to me:

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If you get the arrow of implication pointing in the same direction, they are.

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Implication is not solid enough for it to be 100% the same. You are taking a leap.

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You don't know what "implication" means, do you?Hint: I'm a mathematician. What do you think I mean when I use the word "implication"? Especially if I use it in the phrase, "arrow of implication"?

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So far, the only difference you have managed to come up with is that "biological machines" arise organically while "life" arises with a little bit of pixie dust.

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I have said no such thing, I have only implied that I do not know.

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Incorrect. You have directly said that humans will never be able to create "life." Do you not recall this exchange: It would seem that you know quite well.

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Well, a car doesn't reproduce, for one thing.

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Don't let the machines in the factory hear you, you might hurt their feelings.

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Um, you do understand that the robots in the auto factory aren't actually cars, yes? The cars aren't reproducing. It isn't like a car buds off another one or two BMWs come together, one squirts some lubricating fluid into the other, and some time later you get a Mini.

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Your car does not reproduce, for example. No, let's not be disingenuous and claim that it is just a mutant or "sterile."

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Why not? Is a Tiger Muskie life?

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And thus, you do exactly what I asked you not to do.

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Since biology doesn't apply to your car, then your car isn't life. You need to seek out a mechanical engineer.

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I have a joke for you.

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There is a Amish horse and buggy on the side of the road, and a guy has his hand up the horses ass. What do you call that guy?
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A mechanic.

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No, you call him a "vet."You do understand the difference between a veterinarian and a mechanic, between biology and engineering, yes?

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.