Converting raw energy into biological energy

Looking at the chemical makeup of ATP, AMP and ADP I don't see anything particularly exotic or surprising. None of them are particularly complex molecules, and the conversions back and forth between the various molecules is pretty straightforward.If we look back at hyperthermophiles like Archea we even find that they use sulphur instead of oxygen as the electron acceptor during respiration and so would have thrived in earlier oxygen deprived, sulphur rich environments.The important point though is that in all cases what is seen is simply chemical reactions.

Rob: Pardon me, you are correct. However, my point was that those processes only convert raw energy into the form necessary for complex nucleotide synthesis.Molbiogril: Rob: What could I claim did exist back then, without moving into hypothetical wonderland?Are you suggesting something did exit that is not materially emperical?Whatever the answer, it appears miraculous (I'll spare you the quotes from evolutionists who agree on that point).

Are you willing to admit that it has happened in vitro?

Don't start up with this crap again, Rob.ATP was formed the way Doddy outlined it in the first 12 posts of the ribozyme thread.

Can I take this as an admission on your part that all of these processes HAVE taken place in the lab?

Is it your position that ATP cannot be made in the lab without ATP synthase

The steps in yellow have been re created in the lab.

We know what the conditions were 3 bya. We re-create them in the lab.So far, these steps toward RNA world have been completed:Limited polymerizationRNA ligasesRNA cappingRNA phosphorylationRNA cleavagePeptide bond formationAmide bond formation

So far all you have done is offer incredulity.

Yes. The same conditions resulted in the above.

In addition, plasma states happen to be pretty common. One example is lightning. Others are produced during meteor or comet strikes, also fairly common particularly during the early period of Earth's existence.

molbiogirl: No. He was not.

Unrau, P. J. & Bartel, D. P. RNA-catalysed nucleotide synthesis. Nature 395, 260-263 (1998).Johnston, W. K., Unrau, P. J., Lawrence, M. S., Glasner, M. E. & Bartel, D. P. RNA-catalyzed RNA polymerization: accurate and general RNA-templated primer extension. Science 292, 1319-1325 (2001).Zhang, B. & Cech, T. R. Peptide bond formation by in vitro selected ribozymes. Nature 390, 96-100 (1997).von Kiedrowski, G. A self-replicating hexadeoxynucleotide. Angew. Chem. 25, 932-935 (1986).Gilbert, W. The RNA world. Nature 319, 618 (1986).Joyce, G. F. RNA evolution and the origins of life. Nature 338, 217-224 (1989).Ferris, J. P., Sanchez, R. A. & Orgel, L. E. Studies in prebiotic synthesis III. Synthesis of pyrimidines from cyanoacetylene and cyanate. J. Mol. Biol. 33, 693-704 (1968).Robertson, M. P. & Miller, S. L. An efficient prebiotic synthesis of cytosine and uracil. Nature 375, 772-774 (1995).

The point is you have been shown examples of converting raw energy into biological energy, that complex molecules can form naturally, that there are examples of naturally occurring inorganic molecules that combine, split, recombine, evolve, form new combinations, form helixes similar to DNA.

So once again, other than your personal incredulity, what is the issue?