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Author Topic:   What isn't natural?
Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5526 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006


Message 43 of 58 (419151)
09-01-2007 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Rob
09-01-2007 1:45 AM


Absolutely relative
Rob asks:
If math is not absolute, then why did the ataomic bomb work?
If God is absolute, then why does he let mosquitos bite His true believers?
”HM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Rob, posted 09-01-2007 1:45 AM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Rob, posted 09-01-2007 11:23 AM Fosdick has replied

  
Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5526 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006


Message 45 of 58 (419161)
09-01-2007 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by Rob
09-01-2007 11:23 AM


Re: Absolutely relative
Hoot Mon:
If God is absolute, then why does he let mosquitos bite His true believers?
Rob:
It shows nothing of God's absoluteness. It just shows our non-absoluteness.
You're probably right. One summer long ago at a YMCA camp in Michigan we did an experiment. One cabin of ten boys sat outside in a circle without their shirts on and prayed to God that the mosquitos would not bite them. Another cabin of ten boys sat outside in a circle without their shirts on and didn't pray for anything, they just sang "A Hundred Bottles of Beer On The Wall."
After one hour of this we all went inside and counted our mosuito bites. What were the results? Mosquito bites all around”those little dipterans cared neither for God nor for statistics, and drinking songs made no difference either.
”HM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Rob, posted 09-01-2007 11:23 AM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Rob, posted 09-01-2007 12:32 PM Fosdick has replied
 Message 47 by iceage, posted 09-01-2007 12:40 PM Fosdick has not replied

  
Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5526 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006


Message 49 of 58 (419241)
09-01-2007 7:21 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Rob
09-01-2007 12:32 PM


Re: Absolutely relative
Rob's Scripture lesson:
Matthew 5:5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6 "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written: "'He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.'" 7 Jesus answered him, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'"
But did't Jesus test God when he said in Mathew 10:34-35:
quote:
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father...
What does this mean? Is it relative or absolute? If it is absolutely true that Jesus said this, then why do they call him the Prince of Peace? Or is that just a relative term, according to the absolute spin you put on it?
Mother Nature seems more consistent to me than the Son of God.
”HM

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 Message 46 by Rob, posted 09-01-2007 12:32 PM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Rob, posted 09-01-2007 7:33 PM Fosdick has not replied
 Message 51 by Rob, posted 09-01-2007 7:40 PM Fosdick has not replied
 Message 52 by Rob, posted 09-03-2007 11:47 AM Fosdick has replied

  
Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5526 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006


Message 53 of 58 (419521)
09-03-2007 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Rob
09-03-2007 11:47 AM


Re: Absolutely relative
Rob, you wrote:
Why do they call Him the prince of peace?
Well, because He boldly proclained the truth of how peace with God can be achieved. And His was a one-way street. That's why they crucified Him. But the irony is that that is exactly how He brought peace. He said Himself that He had come to die for our sins, and had come for judgement (not to judge, but for judgement).
He forced Himself into our lives and we have to judge Him. He didn't leave us the option of being undecided. Before we die, we must judge Him one way or the other.
Try to comprehend this, Rob, please. What you are saying is a matter of faith & belief. OK? Why must you continue to insist that your beliefs are the ONLY true ones?
This is the zenith of arrogance!
Look, you are violating a simple principle that is relevant to this thread. You insist that you know what is absolutely true. But most of us here know that you don't. I insist that neither of us knows what is absolutely true, and that both of us dabble only in what is relative to something else.
”HM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Rob, posted 09-03-2007 11:47 AM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
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Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5526 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006


Message 56 of 58 (419724)
09-04-2007 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by New Cat's Eye
09-04-2007 12:56 PM


Re: Nature is unconscious...Wha?
CS, you wrote:
What is the empirical being-ness of a rock?
You'd have to ask a rock. But I know this much: if I picked up a rock and threw it through your window you would provide all the empirical evidence needed to prove its being-ness. But if I threw a prayer or a hex through your window your would probably not even notice.
Sounds like worthless mumbo-jumbo to me.
And I suppose "transubstantiation of the Eucharist" is worthwhile mumbo-jumbo?
No, that is magic.
Well, I suppose one person's worthless mumbo-jumbo is another's holy sacrament. To some people the Second Law is worthless mumbo-jumbo and entropy has no empirical being-ness. Who's to say what is ontological and what is not?
”HM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-04-2007 12:56 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-04-2007 1:34 PM Fosdick has replied

  
Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5526 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006


Message 58 of 58 (419731)
09-04-2007 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by New Cat's Eye
09-04-2007 1:34 PM


Re: Nature is unconscious...Wha?
Do you think that the only things that can exist are those that exist ontologically?
No. I'll admit that my use of the term ontology may be be off the mark for a generalization to rocks. I would do better just to differentiate between what "exists" on principles of faith alone and what "exists" on evidentiary principles.
”HM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-04-2007 1:34 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
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