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Author Topic:   For all you Monkeys out there
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 8 of 31 (41958)
06-02-2003 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Selectric III
06-02-2003 8:45 AM


What a stupid article. The "monkeys typing Shakespeare" is just an analogy. So "proving" that monkeys don't type anyway says nothing. You've just proved that a metaphor might not be something that can happen in real life. Big deal.
The part that bugs me is where the author equates "low probability" with "no probability". Any one person has a pretty low chance of winning the lottery. Yet, almost every day, somebody wins the lottery. How is this possible? It's possible because there's a big difference between a low probability and no probability - in fact, it's as big as the difference between something and nothing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Selectric III, posted 06-02-2003 8:45 AM Selectric III has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by NosyNed, posted 06-02-2003 12:17 PM crashfrog has replied
 Message 20 by Anoter Visitor, posted 06-29-2003 10:34 AM crashfrog has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 10 of 31 (41961)
06-02-2003 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by NosyNed
06-02-2003 12:17 PM


Re: low probability
But if someone did in the first few weeks I'd be very suspicious of the honesty of the lottery.
Only because you (like someone who knows how probability works) are comparing the number of trials (whatever percent of the population buys lottery tickets) with the sample space (all the possible lottery tickets). That's a far cry from an argument from personal incredulity ("I just can't believe that, so it must not be true.")
We make decisions and take actions on probablities when they are 19 to 1 or 99 to 1 in "favor". When we do this (say in medical treatment tests) we are treating (tentively) .05 or .01 as being equal to zero.
Sure, in the case of one thing happening once, that's probably good enough. But in the case of one improbable thing being tested over and over again, over time, the odds of any improbable thing happening rise dramatically. If you have infinite time, all improbable things occur.
Now, of course, we don't have infinite time. The question is really "what improbable things could happen during the lifetime of the universe?" Luckily abiogenesis appears to be one of those things.
But ultimately, I agree with you - probability isn't even a cogent argument here because we simply don't know what factors were involved in abiogenesis, so we can't set up any kind of probability after the fact.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by NosyNed, posted 06-02-2003 12:17 PM NosyNed has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 17 of 31 (43175)
06-17-2003 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Asgara
06-17-2003 8:33 AM


Re: random
I look at the issue like a game of Yatzee...you throw out the dice and they land randomly, but then you get to choose the dice you keep for the next throw. The mutations are the randomly dropped dice, natural selection is the choice of which dice are kept.
Good analogy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Asgara, posted 06-17-2003 8:33 AM Asgara has replied

Replies to this message:
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