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Author Topic:   Talk about Coffee?
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 16 of 87 (420786)
09-09-2007 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Taz
09-09-2007 3:08 PM


on decaf
The only problem with decaf coffee is that the process is expensive if done properly and so you don't see much but bulk bean processing. I have been able to find a few though. Aloha Island Estates does some great 100% Kona decafs in roasts from light to dark, and I also have a great Guatemalan Antigua Decaf here right now. I also like the decaf Columbian from Eldorado roasters.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Taz, posted 09-09-2007 3:08 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Taz, posted 09-09-2007 3:19 PM jar has not replied
 Message 28 by Minnemooseus, posted 09-09-2007 4:46 PM jar has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 17 of 87 (420787)
09-09-2007 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by jar
09-09-2007 3:16 PM


Re: on decaf
See, the other thing about me is my sense of taste is a lot different than the rest of yous. I can confidently say that ALL coffee that I have tried pretty much taste the same to me. I've tried everything from the cheapest to the most rediculously priced brands. I often find people arguing over which taste like what but to me they all taste like... coffee.
Is there something wrong with me?

Disclaimer:
Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by jar, posted 09-09-2007 3:16 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by crashfrog, posted 09-09-2007 3:31 PM Taz has replied

  
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5953 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 18 of 87 (420792)
09-09-2007 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Taz
09-09-2007 3:08 PM


Taz writes:
I love the taste of coffee but can't stand the effect of coffee on my system. A single cup of coffee will keep me awake an entire night. This is why I drink decaf.
I avoided coffee for a long time for the same reason. The jittery feeling negatively affects my concentration so that I am less productive all around. On the other hand, it's possible that sipping on a cup of coffee while perusing EvC gives me an illusion of relaxed down-time typically assosciated with the timing of my alcohol imbibery. I've seen my husband do the same thing: pounding Wawa coffee during poker games on the nights where he doesn't want to drink. A coffee crutch? I think it is addictive!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Taz, posted 09-09-2007 3:08 PM Taz has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 19 of 87 (420793)
09-09-2007 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Taz
09-09-2007 3:19 PM


Re: on decaf
I often find people arguing over which taste like what but to me they all taste like... coffee.
All wines taste like wine, too. The only thing that's "wrong" with you is that you aren't practiced in really thinking about the way things taste.
It's just a free-association trick, basically. That's what the wine guys are doing when they talk about "a floral nose (smell), with an oakey yet fruity body." Or "chocolatey overtones." The wine doesn't have any chocolate or flowers or peaches in it. It's just what the guy was reminded of.
Develop your sense of taste. Go to a wine tasting. Host your own coffee tasting. Scraf is a professional taster of things; I'm sure she has some great tips on how to develop the "resolution" of your sense of taste. (Similar situation - lock picking requires an acute sense of touch, in order to feel the slight sensation of pins locking in their shear plane. Lock pickers train their sense of touch by running their fingertips over coarse sandpaper and concentrating on feeling each grain. Then they move to finer sandpaper.)
And, you know, stop smoking, if you do. The things that does to your tastebuds/olfactory sense... well, it would be like if you stopped being able to see color or hear music. You're literally burning them right off your tongue.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Taz, posted 09-09-2007 3:19 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Taz, posted 09-09-2007 3:37 PM crashfrog has replied
 Message 37 by Jaderis, posted 09-09-2007 5:35 PM crashfrog has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 20 of 87 (420794)
09-09-2007 3:32 PM


On Roasts and Acidity.
There is a lot of confusion about the different roasts and acidity. Some acidity is necessary in coffee. It is the dry bright taste you sense when drinking a cup. Generally, low acidity coffees will taste bland. It is NOT a sour taste.
Usually you will find higher levels of acidity in wet processed coffees and also at lighter roasts. Dry processed coffees will usually have less acid and darker roasts will also generally have less acid.
Yu can get an idea of what different roasts look like at Sweet Maria's.
So if you want a low acid coffee, choose an Espresso, higher acid choose a Breakfast Blend Light Roast.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by crashfrog, posted 09-09-2007 3:47 PM jar has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 21 of 87 (420795)
09-09-2007 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by crashfrog
09-09-2007 3:31 PM


Re: on decaf
crashfrog writes:
And, you know, stop smoking, if you do. The things that does to your tastebuds/olfactory sense... well, it would be like if you stopped being able to see color or hear music. You're literally burning them right off your tongue.
Hahaha.
<========= Don't smoke. Why? I'd like to keep my lungs healthy so I can continue to play Lisa Simpson's instrument.
You could say I'm the most boring person in the world. I don't smoke, drink, or hire hookers.
All wines taste like wine, too. The only thing that's "wrong" with you is that you aren't practiced in really thinking about the way things taste.
This is probably because I'm usually not too selective. Basically, every restaurant I go to taste fine to me (and the same). Everything my wife cooks seem to taste just fine even though she (and others) occasionally would say this is too salty or that is too sour or whatnot.
Develop your sense of taste. Go to a wine tasting. Host your own coffee tasting.
But as I understand it, much of what's "good" is completely subjective. How does one of these taste events work anyway? How do people really know what's the best without reading each other's minds?

Disclaimer:
Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by crashfrog, posted 09-09-2007 3:31 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by jar, posted 09-09-2007 3:47 PM Taz has not replied
 Message 25 by crashfrog, posted 09-09-2007 4:13 PM Taz has not replied
 Message 33 by nator, posted 09-09-2007 5:18 PM Taz has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 22 of 87 (420799)
09-09-2007 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by jar
09-09-2007 3:32 PM


Re: Acidity;
Have any of you ever heard of "Swedish coffee"? It's a technique where a raw egg is dropped into the basket on top of the grounds (or something like that). It's supposed to be really smooth, I suspect because compounds in the egg neutralize some of the acidity or bind to some of the bitter coffee oils or something.
I used to see it a lot at the Minnesota State Fair. Anybody else ever heard of this?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by jar, posted 09-09-2007 3:32 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by jar, posted 09-09-2007 3:55 PM crashfrog has replied
 Message 34 by anastasia, posted 09-09-2007 5:20 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 23 of 87 (420800)
09-09-2007 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Taz
09-09-2007 3:37 PM


Re: on decaf
How do people really know what's the best without reading each other's minds?
The best is what YOU like the best.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Taz, posted 09-09-2007 3:37 PM Taz has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 24 of 87 (420802)
09-09-2007 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by crashfrog
09-09-2007 3:47 PM


Caffe mit salmonella
Ah Yes. Actually I think it is Hungarian in origin as opposed to Swedish. A raw egg (shell and all) is mixed with the fresh grounds then brewed.
The neat part is that the raw egg causes the coffee to foam and then as brewing continues the egg, shell and grounds mat together and settle to the bottom. Originally it was a way to get the coffee grounds which are light and will float to settle out.
If you want to slow or stop the foaming just add a little ice cold water and it will drop back.
The coffee is then taken from the top and served with sugar and often a fruit syrup like raspberries.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by crashfrog, posted 09-09-2007 3:47 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by crashfrog, posted 09-09-2007 4:15 PM jar has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 25 of 87 (420804)
09-09-2007 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Taz
09-09-2007 3:37 PM


On taste.
I'd like to keep my lungs healthy so I can continue to play Lisa Simpson's instrument.
Good, good! You're a musician! Think about taste like you'd think about the sound of a note. I'm sure you can play an adequate B flat, in tune and stuff, but consider the difference between your B flat and Miles Davis's.
Everything my wife cooks seem to taste just fine even though she (and others) occasionally would say this is too salty or that is too sour or whatnot.
See, there's your problem. You've got only two tastes - "bad" and "fine."
You need to learn to think about flavor in terms of more than whether or not it tastes bad to you, or whether or not you can eat it. Don't just wonder if something tastes "good" - ask yourself, what does it taste like? Where have you tasted it before? What were you doing the last time you tasted something like this?
You need to explore taste. Try to remember how things taste. I mean, right now, when you're not eating something. Try to remember the last really special meal you had and focus on the taste of the food.
People get into this habit of food being ancillary to whatever they're doing, where even a meal is just using the body's need for food in order to watch TV, or get some work done, or hang out with friends. And that's fine, but sometimes a meal should be about eating, too.
But as I understand it, much of what's "good" is completely subjective.
It's not about how good things taste. It's about what things taste like. Wine tastings aren't a bunch of people sitting around and saying "mm, that's good. Oh, that's bad." That's not how it works at all.
How does one of these taste events work anyway?
You show up. Maybe it's free, maybe you pay a little fee. Let's say this is a wine tasting. Somebody who knows something about wines has picked out some bottles for the tasting.
He or she goes around, and pours you a little bit into your glass. They tell you something about the wine - what kind of wine it is, where it was grown, how old it is. Maybe they even explain some wine terms, if this is a "beginner" kind of event.
The discerning taster swirls the wine in the glass for a little bit, to get a sense of its color and to aromatize some of the volatile compounds that give wine its flavor. They inhale the aroma of the wine (the "nose"). This primes your olfactory senses. They take a slurping sip to get both wine and air into their mouths, and then they let the wine run over the entire surface of their tongue (because different areas of the tongue detect different flavors.)
Then they describe the different tastes in the wine, comparing them to other tastes and smells. Chocolate, maybe, or the smells of oak or applewood, or the tastes of fruit. They consider how sour the wine tastes, to get a sense of its acidity. As they swallow the wine, alcohol in the wine begins to vaporize off the tongue, and the intensity of that sensation is called "dryness".
You don't have to make a big show of doing all that at a wine tasting; you just have to understand that wines are meant to be perceived in those five different ways - color, nose, flavor, acidity, and dryness. People sometimes bring a little notebook to write down their impressions and they organize it by label, so that when they go to buy some wines, they have an idea of what they'll enjoy. Or you can just try and remember.
You can do the same thing with coffee.
What does it look like? Does it have that smokey dark brown color? Or is it pale or black, like sludge? Does it have that little chestnut-colored ring of foam (called crema) around the edge, or was it just slopped into your cup lukewarm from a carafe that's been on the heater all day long?
What does it smell like? Does it smell roasted, caramelized, kind of like a roast turkey? Or does it smell sharp and bitter? Does it smell full-bodied, like there's too much going on to describe? Or does it just have the flat "bitter" smell?
What does it taste like? Is it complex and deep, like there's a lot going on? Or does it just taste like one thing, like soup without enough salt? Is it drab and boring? Is it too bitter or sour? Or is it like... well, I dunno. (I sat here for 10 minutes trying to think of how to describe how good coffee tastes, but I've got nothing.)
How do people really know what's the best without reading each other's minds?
It's a lot less about "the best" than you think. It's more about understanding what things taste like, not just whether they taste "better" than another thing. Leave the ranking for the wine judges. Just learn to taste the things that you're eating and drinking - not in terms of goodness, but in terms of the way they taste. You'll see what your wife is talking about when she says something is too salty or sour.
It's the difference between Miles Davis blowing on a saxophone and me doing it. Sure, there's a portion that you just can't put into words. The "essence." But some of it, you can consciously identify and describe. Doing so, talking about it with people (like your wife or your friends or the people at wine tastings) helps you identify the different tastes. Doing it with other people can give you the vocabulary you need to put word to flavor, and to remember the way things taste.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Taz, posted 09-09-2007 3:37 PM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 26 of 87 (420805)
09-09-2007 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by jar
09-09-2007 3:55 PM


Re: Caffe mit salmonella
The neat part is that the raw egg causes the coffee to foam and then as brewing continues the egg, shell and grounds mat together and settle to the bottom. Originally it was a way to get the coffee grounds which are light and will float to settle out.
What kind of brewing setup is this done in? I've seen it done with the regular paper-filter kind of coffeemaker. The way you describe it, it sounds like something else, something where the grounds are floating around in the water, like a french press.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by jar, posted 09-09-2007 3:55 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 27 of 87 (420807)
09-09-2007 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by crashfrog
09-09-2007 4:15 PM


Re: Caffe mit salmonella
Originally it was a community event. Coffee was a luxury remember and so when they had some it was shared by all.
It was originally done in a large cast iron kettle and often at an outdoors event.
The key was at the time there were no filters. This was a method to get the grit out.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 28 of 87 (420810)
09-09-2007 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by jar
09-09-2007 3:16 PM


Re: on decaf
Cafe Mam has their various roasts available in decaf or half regular / half decaf. Their decaf is by the Swiss Water Process. While there caffeinated is $32/5 pounds, the decaf is $36/5 pounds (both + shipping charges).
Plus, the Cafe Mam company is very "green".
Moose

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by jar, posted 09-09-2007 3:16 PM jar has replied

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nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 29 of 87 (420813)
09-09-2007 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by jar
09-09-2007 10:02 AM


Re: On Ethiopian
Sidamo is one of the very best coffees I have ever tasted. It has been years since I had any.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by jar, posted 09-09-2007 10:02 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 30 of 87 (420816)
09-09-2007 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by crashfrog
09-09-2007 4:13 PM


Re: On taste.
That was really, really good.
(except that Miles Davis plays the trumpet, not the saxophone. )

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by crashfrog, posted 09-09-2007 4:13 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
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