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Author Topic:   If God made a mistake would he tell us?
zephyr
Member (Idle past 4843 days)
Posts: 821
From: FOB Taji, Iraq
Joined: 04-22-2003


Message 10 of 42 (42071)
06-04-2003 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Peter
06-04-2003 9:00 AM


Well, PATRIOT acts notwithstanding, the Bill of Rights is probably the biggest difference to me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Peter, posted 06-04-2003 9:00 AM Peter has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Peter, posted 06-04-2003 11:43 AM zephyr has replied

zephyr
Member (Idle past 4843 days)
Posts: 821
From: FOB Taji, Iraq
Joined: 04-22-2003


Message 12 of 42 (42080)
06-04-2003 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Peter
06-04-2003 11:43 AM


quote:
Maybe I'm just cynical, but there is a huge difference
between things written into law and the way our leaders
behave ... and even King John had his magna carta
Yes, a president or prime minister is elected, but once in office
their powers are used in a manner not dissimilar to monarchs
of old. They do as they please in the interests of 'national
security' or 'the people' ... but seem to operate in a way
that mainly benefits themselves and their associates.
I could never bring myself to trust anyone who actively seeks
power. I agree with Frank Herbert on that ... 'power attracts
the corruptible'.
Right on. I agree 100% with you there.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Peter, posted 06-04-2003 11:43 AM Peter has seen this message but not replied

zephyr
Member (Idle past 4843 days)
Posts: 821
From: FOB Taji, Iraq
Joined: 04-22-2003


Message 14 of 42 (42117)
06-04-2003 10:39 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by truthlover
06-04-2003 5:29 PM


quote:
Maybe it's popular to be a cynic, but it seems to me that the system of checks and balances written into the constitution (the sharing of power among the executive, legislative, and judicial branches) has pretty effectively limited the power of the presidency and the Congress. It may not be perfect, but it's a heck of a lot better than the old monarchies, in my opinion.
Ideally, it's vastly better. But the executive branch has slowly been gaining power for decades, and many find this cause for concern. Throw in the erosion of individual rights that is the PATRIOT act, and it's no surprise that the conspiracy theorists have had a field day with 9-11. I just happened to reread an editorial from a few days later, predicting that some would propose ill-advised curtailments of rights in order to make things safe. I recall thinking at the time that reason would prevail.
Oops.
I also just read some more news about the Guantanamo Bay detention facility for all the foreigners we've taken in. They're building an execution chamber, among other things. None of those people are subject to the Geneva Convention or any laws giving them any rights whatsoever. We are publicly and shamelessly circumventing both our own law and international law in our treatment of prisoners. I'm not saying it will happen tomorrow, but it's a step toward the day when it happens to you or me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by truthlover, posted 06-04-2003 5:29 PM truthlover has replied

Replies to this message:
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zephyr
Member (Idle past 4843 days)
Posts: 821
From: FOB Taji, Iraq
Joined: 04-22-2003


Message 18 of 42 (42171)
06-05-2003 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by truthlover
06-04-2003 11:13 PM


quote:
I'm not sure I agree that the executive branch has been slowly gaining power for decades, although I'm no history expert.
How many undeclared wars have we fought in your lifetime? Used to be we couldn't send soldiers anywhere without a declaration from Congress. A series of resolutions have gradually increased the ability of the president to take unilateral military action. I had a whole military science class that spent a few days on the subject.
quote:
However, that is not the same as saying "we might as well have a monarchy, what's the difference?"
Quite true, I agree.
quote:
the very concern we are talking about is that our government might turn into a monarchy, and that would be terrible, I agree.
Yup.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by truthlover, posted 06-04-2003 11:13 PM truthlover has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by truthlover, posted 06-05-2003 8:26 PM zephyr has not replied

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