Proof for God's Non-existance?

I don't see that anybody's come to that conclusion. It's entirely possible for God to exist; he just doesn't, as far as we can tell.

Tsk, tsk. That is the entire argument of this thread, and you go and present your opinion as though it is fact. We are, in a sense, arguing whether God is a fictional character or not.We try to debate about proof for and against God's existence; which generally translates into whether that existance is accepted as truth or not; and your response is to tell us that God is a fictional character because He's a fictional character?Beg
The
Question
?Jon

That argument is over. We proved it; you don't seem to be able to marshal a response. What's left to argue about?

robinson crusoe is also a fictional person .... BUT the story is based on real events ... so the CURRENT tales of god may be fiction ..but what is the origin of the story ... there are fiction writen about many historic figure .. but they still exsisted ....and of course maybe you are reading the wrong books ......

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That is the entire argument of this thread, and you go and present your opinion as though it is fact. We are, in a sense, arguing whether God is a fictional character or not.

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No you aren't. You may think you are since several have mentioned fictional characters, but you really haven't addressed it.In Message 27, Hoot Man asked: But you didn't address his question.Gods fit all the criteria for fictional characters that I listed in Message 105.So far you have been addressing Crash's premise: Message 34 and Message 55No one really confirmed that any god is considered to be present everywhere at once. Since you feel that Crash's evidence is not evidence that God doesn't exist at all, then it means that God doesn't exist everywhere at once and the atheists are working with an incorrect parameter.Is that correct, that God doesn't exist everywhere at once?What are atheists to look for when looking for God in the spatio-temporal world?Without specific parameters we really can't discuss whether gods can be found in the spatio-temporal world.The one with the specifics has to provide the information for those doing the looking.Where do we find these specifics? In literature and stories. God's attributes are dependent on people. The Bible itself shows us this. The difference between the God of the OT and the God of the NT.A survey on religion showed that people in the United States have four distinct images of God.
Authoritarian, Benevolent, Critical or Distant. The characteristics depend on who you talk to or what you read.I'm saying that gods do not function independent of literature, stories, or people. This is repeated in Luke 11:9-13. Everyone who asks receives! This statement would be considered untrue if only one person didn't receive what they asked for. I know two Christians who prayed to be physically healed and weren't. Just like occulus repairus won't fix my glasses.In Genesis 11:1-9 the gods were concerned about mankind working together to accomplish the task of building a tower to heaven. So they thwarted the effort. Over the centuries we have accomplished many great feats by working together, but the gods haven't stopped us from going to the moon or putting satellites in space.Religions that state that God can only be known through revelation are proof that their God does not function independent of people.I don't do logic babble, so please refrain from using it.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

I noticed that you did not mention in your list the characteristics of Interactivity. In the case where God is concerned, we have several millions of people praying and claiming to have a measurable connection with God. We do not however, have people claiming to have connections with Santa, the Tooth-fairy or Tinker-bell.(1) I wonder also, do we have fictional books claimed to be inspired by forces beyond our own?(2) What do we make of the origin or created point of the character? Does God have a point of creation? Are the scriptures comparable in any way to common fictional books where negativity and preservation is concerned? I have studied the preservation of the scriptures throughout recorded history and it's survival is nothing short of miraculous from an archaeological standpoint. Santa, the tooth fairy and others are actually on the way out as we progress socially and intellectually.(3) I don't really see the application of this point is.(4) True, then again, it would seem as though the origin of myth and fictional story books stem from the roots of God and the supernatural. In a case where ghosts, spirits, living souls, and the such are concerned, they all seem to originate from a common source.

1. Created by an author.
2. Created at a specific point in time.
3. Their existence is dependent on the author, literary work, memory of the work, and people who can read or hear the work.
4. They are not found in the spatio-temporal world.

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(1) I wonder also, do we have fictional books claimed to be inspired by forces beyond our own?

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Irrelevant. An author is an author no matter how they are inspired.

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(2)... Does God have a point of creation? ...

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When the first story was created and passed on.

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(3) I don't really see the application of this point is.

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The character no longer exists once the medium is gone.

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(4) True, then again, it would seem as though the origin of myth and fictional story books stem from the roots of God and the supernatural. In a case where ghosts, spirits, living souls, and the such are concerned, they all seem to originate from a common source.

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Imagination

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

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Irrelevant. An author is an author no matter how they are inspired.

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Really, so if God was the author of the ten commandments, where does this get placed on your wishlist?

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When the first story was created and passed on.

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True, should we even bother to mention that it was claimed(created) at the beginning of human existence?

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The character no longer exists once the medium is gone.

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I think it's safe to say that God is immune this characteristic.

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(4) True, then again, it would seem as though the origin of myth and fictional story books stem from the roots of God and the supernatural. In a case where ghosts, spirits, living souls, and the such are concerned, they all seem to originate from a common source.

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Imagination

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Do we have any books other than the scriptures that predate this? The scriptures seem to parent all other fictional books where supernatural and paralleling universes are concerned. Or do we have something older?

I also noticed that you did not include a tangibility factor in your list. In a case where the book or fairytale provides measurable or tangible evidence within it's content. For example, in the case where the scriptures give prophecies. I think such characteristics would remain outstanding.Do we have any comparable fairytales with such characteristics in it?

Except of course, that so far no one has been able to show many examples of fulfilled prophecy in the Bible.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Are you speaking from a personal observation or referring to something you have read somewheres? The scriptures are filled with conditions, commands, prophesies and facts stated by God that have stood the test of time and remain unchanged or unsurmountable. Here are a few to help put things into perspective.Anatomy: The Bible accurately listed the parts of a human embryo(Psalm 139:13-16) The brain, the heart, the lungs, the eyes”these and all the other body parts were recorded in the genetic code of the fertilized egg in the mother's womb. Including the internal timetables for the appearance of each of these parts in proper order. So lets just think about this, this fact about the development of the human body was recorded almost 3,000 years before scientists discovered the genetic code.Archeology: Biblical kings, cities, and nations have been discovered with the discovery of clay tablets, pottery and inscriptions. For example; such people as the Hittites mentioned in the Scriptures actually did exist(Exodus 3:8). A renown researcher once observed that people who have shaken their own faith in the Bible, and undermined its authority, in turn undermined themselves by the evidence that has been brought to light. The spade(as it were) is driving destructive criticism out of the field of questionable facts into that of recognized fiction.Astronomy: Over 2,700 years ago(before people knew the earth is round), the prophet Isaiah wrote about the one who is dwelling above the circle of the earth(Isaiah 40:22). The Hebrew word chugh here translated circle, is also rendered sphere.
The circle of the earth(horizon) is clearly seen from outer space and sometimes during high-altitude airplane travel. Incidentally the book of Job spoke of God as "hanging the earth upon nothing". This is true, for astronomers know that the earth has no visible means of support.There is a long list of such facts found in the scriptures, not to mention the commands by God which hold true to this day. While I do not know the number of outstanding prophesies the scriptures contain I do know listing them(with reasoning) would span a few pages.

Great. If you think so please start yet another thread on the one that you actually think can be supported.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

We're talking about the characteristics of a fictional character. The Bible contains various styles of writing.Whether a prophecy came true or not would serve to prove the veracity of the author, not the existence of the characters in the spatio-temporal world.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

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Really, so if God was the author of the ten commandments, where does this get placed on your wishlist?

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It is not a wish list. They are the characteristics of fictional characters.I'm not playing the "if" game. Show evidence that a god is an author.

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True, should we even bother to mention that it was claimed(created) at the beginning of human existence?

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I assume you 're talking about the Christian creation stories. I don't recall the authors claiming that the stories were told at the beginning of human existence. You'll have to provide support before I can answer.

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I think it's safe to say that God is immune this characteristic.

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Actually you can't say. The medium still exists. Several gods have fallen by the wayside, but they still exist in old writings. Once those are gone and people forget, they won't exist. I'm sure that has happened to many of the Native American gods/spirits from the New England area. Stories were lost.

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Do we have any books other than the scriptures that predate this? The scriptures seem to parent all other fictional books where supernatural and paralleling universes are concerned. Or do we have something older?

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Predate what?

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It is not a wish list. They are the characteristics of fictional characters.

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I'm not playing the "if" game. Show evidence that a god is an author.

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The term wishlist was not diminutive, it was more of slang for the list in general. I think your list is flawed on a few angles. This is no discriminating your work, simply stating that it ends up treating text and characteristics with a bit if a wishwash rather than through a standardized process. For example; if the scriptures are positioned at the root origin of fairytales then it is redundant to apply fairytale measures to scrutinize the scriptures.As for God(the author) the scriptures state that it was God Himself who told Moses to write down what He was about to tell him. Now I might be wrong in this, but doesn't this qualify God as the Author of that document?

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Actually you can't say. The medium still exists. Several gods have fallen by the wayside, but they still exist in old writings. Once those are gone and people forget, they won't exist. I'm sure that has happened to many of the Native American gods/spirits from the New England area. Stories were lost.

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True, I did not take into consideration the entire volley of gods and mediums. I guess, this is in part by my own inherent belief that there can be only one God above all things.

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Do we have any books other than the scriptures that predate this? The scriptures seem to parent all other fictional books where supernatural and paralleling universes are concerned. Or do we have something older?

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Predate what?

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Do we have any fairytales which predate the ancient scriptures?PS. I will look into the dating of the ancient scriptures relative to the human timeline. I can't say for certain(based on memory) where exactly the bible stands in view of human existence. However, I think the results are subjective to ones beliefs on the origin and human existence timeline.Edited by pbee, : typo's