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Author Topic:   People - I /was/ a Christian
pbee
Member (Idle past 6027 days)
Posts: 339
Joined: 06-20-2007


Message 31 of 307 (421058)
09-10-2007 10:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by crashfrog
09-10-2007 3:34 PM


Re: I know about Faith
Is it possible you were barking up the wrong tree?
Many people seem blind to the fact that not all religions stand in favor with God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by crashfrog, posted 09-10-2007 3:34 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Asgara, posted 09-10-2007 10:31 PM pbee has not replied
 Message 34 by Coragyps, posted 09-10-2007 10:33 PM pbee has replied
 Message 35 by crashfrog, posted 09-10-2007 10:35 PM pbee has replied
 Message 40 by Chiroptera, posted 09-10-2007 10:58 PM pbee has replied

pbee
Member (Idle past 6027 days)
Posts: 339
Joined: 06-20-2007


Message 36 of 307 (421070)
09-10-2007 10:38 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Coragyps
09-10-2007 10:33 PM


Re: I know about Faith
Everyone has there story(journey). Fascinating thing about religion,God and people. Is that the entire concept, places people in a state of unrest.
When you say you're about to get militant about atheism, does this imply for or against atheism. I mean, is it even possible to implement unbelief as an active state of anything?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Coragyps, posted 09-10-2007 10:33 PM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by macaroniandcheese, posted 09-10-2007 10:58 PM pbee has replied

pbee
Member (Idle past 6027 days)
Posts: 339
Joined: 06-20-2007


Message 38 of 307 (421073)
09-10-2007 10:48 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by crashfrog
09-10-2007 10:35 PM


Re: I know about Faith
Don't get me wrong here, I'm not canvassing. However, famed religions and tree hugging don't really fall into the pre-req's mentioned in the scriptures do they?
God, man, faith. The entire system lies on a formula. There are no shortcuts or ways to cheat the system. And religions are no exception to the rule. Though, I'm not knocking atheism, I am a firm supporter of freedom. The onset of those turning away from religious enterprises over the lack thereof remains intriguing.
What fascinates about the whole thing is when people turn *against those who continue to serve God afterwards.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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pbee
Member (Idle past 6027 days)
Posts: 339
Joined: 06-20-2007


Message 41 of 307 (421076)
09-10-2007 10:58 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by macaroniandcheese
09-10-2007 10:58 PM


Re: I know about Faith
That makes me laugh.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by arachnophilia, posted 09-10-2007 11:02 PM pbee has replied

pbee
Member (Idle past 6027 days)
Posts: 339
Joined: 06-20-2007


Message 44 of 307 (421080)
09-10-2007 11:11 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by arachnophilia
09-10-2007 11:02 PM


Re: I know about Faith
Very interesting
I'm not sure why this takes place, but when you mention it, I began to contemplate the people that I personally know, who are inherently fanatical with things. Just as they exhibit radical characteristics with religion, they will likewise exhibit radical characteristics with other aspect of belief such about science or atheism. It's all very interesting.
I also think they bring down the house so to speak on God and faith, which is to bad really. The world is crashing so very nicely all on it's own, that I really don't see the need for people to take it out on one another.
When I contemplate God, faith and it's implications, it raises a question about active atheism as a whole. Since the knowledge of God is to attain eternal life, what do atheists offer?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by arachnophilia, posted 09-10-2007 11:02 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by arachnophilia, posted 09-10-2007 11:22 PM pbee has not replied
 Message 47 by crashfrog, posted 09-10-2007 11:45 PM pbee has replied
 Message 59 by iceage, posted 09-11-2007 12:29 AM pbee has replied

pbee
Member (Idle past 6027 days)
Posts: 339
Joined: 06-20-2007


Message 46 of 307 (421082)
09-10-2007 11:35 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Chiroptera
09-10-2007 10:58 PM


Re: I know about Faith
I don't think it works that way. From what I can see, God remains in the same place all the time. It is people who are in motion(closing in or away). The scriptures say He wants everyone to stay close to Him, and refers to those falling away as lost sheep.
There are numerous scriptures to support the time and opportunity given to everyone to make up their own minds. The only outstanding aspect of leaving God is for those who turn against God's people.
The scriptures really do give instructions on how to find the right path to God. I believe the formula works. It all comes down to whether or not someone is ready or willing to commit to it. As someone mentioned once, "in this day and age, we have a religion for everyone", whether or not it stand in line with God's word, well that's a whole other story.

This message is a reply to:
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pbee
Member (Idle past 6027 days)
Posts: 339
Joined: 06-20-2007


Message 48 of 307 (421085)
09-10-2007 11:58 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by crashfrog
09-10-2007 11:45 PM


Re: I know about Faith
Truth, is an implicative term. Jesus spoke of truth and when He did, he seemed to exemplify that only God knew it. It makes me wonder though, if humans were ever or will ever be in a position to claim to know the truth about life? I remain weary of anyone who, while being bound by the same knowledge and rules as we are, claims to know the truth about anything. Wouldn't this be a case of the blind leading the blind?
How does one contend with the possibility of eternal life in exchange for nothing? It seems like an odd counter offer isn't it?
This is not a criticism of your decision or experiences. I just find that concept of people leaving religions and turning against God and those worshiping Him as a fascinating phenomenon.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by crashfrog, posted 09-10-2007 11:45 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Taz, posted 09-11-2007 12:10 AM pbee has replied
 Message 52 by crashfrog, posted 09-11-2007 12:16 AM pbee has replied
 Message 82 by Archer Opteryx, posted 09-11-2007 4:36 AM pbee has not replied

pbee
Member (Idle past 6027 days)
Posts: 339
Joined: 06-20-2007


Message 51 of 307 (421089)
09-11-2007 12:14 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by crashfrog
09-10-2007 11:45 PM


Re: I know about Faith
Your post grew exponentially since my last reply.
I agree with the fact that religion has really become a pick of the litter type of thing. That is why I personally refer to religions as enterprises. Religions have truly become like a modern business.
However, they are not indicative of God and truth. I think you raised some fine points based on your own experiences and observations. While many religions do sell people on the benefits of becoming part of their doctrines, such things do not stand in harmony with the scriptures.
quote:
Me? I'm more interested in what's likely to be true. And it's been my experience that the things people choose to believe because it makes them feel better, because it's something they want to be true, are the things least likely to be true.
I think the key to success where God and faith are concerned is directly attributed to ones founding reasons for seeking out God to begin with. If it's on a what's in it for me basis, then that person may be doomed for failure to begin with. But I have seen people, start that way and slowly change their attitudes as they moved along. So, who knows!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by crashfrog, posted 09-10-2007 11:45 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by crashfrog, posted 09-11-2007 12:18 AM pbee has replied

pbee
Member (Idle past 6027 days)
Posts: 339
Joined: 06-20-2007


Message 55 of 307 (421093)
09-11-2007 12:21 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by crashfrog
09-11-2007 12:16 AM


Re: I know about Faith
quote:
So, until we know everything, we don't know anything?
I don't understand how you could go through life from a position of such paralyzing ignorance.
Who said anything about everything(laughing).
quote:
Exchanging truth for lies? I don't find it all that weird.
There is no disputing that religions and people lie. But one question remains outstanding, and that is what is truth?
Being born, and raised in a hard core scientifically minded family, I have to question peoples perception of truth. Since both sides(or everyone for that matter) speaking on behalf of life and truth seem to claim they "know something". So I wonder, if exposing lies automatically renders truth about life and God?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by crashfrog, posted 09-11-2007 12:16 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by crashfrog, posted 09-11-2007 1:34 AM pbee has replied

pbee
Member (Idle past 6027 days)
Posts: 339
Joined: 06-20-2007


Message 57 of 307 (421095)
09-11-2007 12:24 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by crashfrog
09-11-2007 12:18 AM


Re: I know about Faith
quote:
But you have to decide to believe the scriptures; otherwise, it's just a book like all the other religions have.
And you decided to believe the scriptures rather than, say, the Koran, because the Bible was more familiar to you - made you feel more comfortable, more like the people around you - and because you like its message. It appeals to you.
You are way ahead of yourself here. First of all I never said I believed the scriptures. Secondly, you have no idea if the bible was familiar to me or if I liked its message of it is made me comfortable etc etc.
You are wrong on all counts by the way. What drove you to assume these things? Was it something you read? Is it because I said something that contradicted your own feelings?
So obviously I cannot speak for others, but I think I made a point. Not everyone is drawn to God for the same generic reasons.
Edited by pbee, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by crashfrog, posted 09-11-2007 12:18 AM crashfrog has not replied

pbee
Member (Idle past 6027 days)
Posts: 339
Joined: 06-20-2007


Message 60 of 307 (421099)
09-11-2007 12:35 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by molbiogirl
09-11-2007 12:28 AM


Re: Atheism and Violence
I don't mean to nit-pick but aren't those statistics a bit skewed?
Last I aw the stats were presented on a minimum /maximum scale, Atheists / Agnostics numbers ranged from 40 and 80%.
I am not knocking your claim, just wanted to clarify whether or not you were aware of this.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by molbiogirl, posted 09-11-2007 12:28 AM molbiogirl has not replied

pbee
Member (Idle past 6027 days)
Posts: 339
Joined: 06-20-2007


Message 62 of 307 (421101)
09-11-2007 12:40 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by iceage
09-11-2007 12:29 AM


Re: I know about Faith
quote:
or those folks who proclaim that they "love the Lord" ask them if they found out that there is really in no eternal paradise awaiting for them would they still "love the Lord"? Probably not which demonstrates what they really love...
Thats an interesting statement. In the past I recall a group conducting blind tests on that very topic. The results were interesting to say the least. Though many people expressed feelings ranging from loss of hope to complete breakdown, there were a notable number of people who chose to remain faithful to God for the only purpose of doing what was right or pleasing Him.
I think this aspect of faith was best documented in the account of Job though.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by iceage, posted 09-11-2007 12:29 AM iceage has not replied

pbee
Member (Idle past 6027 days)
Posts: 339
Joined: 06-20-2007


Message 63 of 307 (421104)
09-11-2007 12:51 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Taz
09-11-2007 12:10 AM


Re: I know about Faith
quote:
think you've been here long enough to see the creationists who every once in a while would show up and declare they have cosmic wisdom in all fields of science but then upon closer inspections we find that they don't know jack poop about anything they were talking about. Most of these people I have no doubt that they actually believe they know better than the rest of us. But as they mature, some of them will begin to realize that they embarrass themselves everytime they try to speak authoritatively on something. Unfortunately, most of these people will never learn and will continue to live in their delusional state of mind.
Same thing with this whole religion thing. Most religious people would tell you that their religion is the right path toward salvation and the only way to the truth. How do they know this? Well, they were born into a household that dogmatically taught them that. As they grow up and mature, some of them will come to the realization that "hey, I don't know what the truth is..." Unfortunately, most of them will remain convinced that they have the absolute truth until the day they die.
Well this is all true isn't it. But then again, the entire fiasco seems driven by human emotions to begin with. The same emotional outbreaks and claims can be measured in all aspects of life for that matter.
This is more of a human problem than a God and faith problem.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Taz, posted 09-11-2007 12:10 AM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Taz, posted 09-11-2007 1:03 AM pbee has replied

pbee
Member (Idle past 6027 days)
Posts: 339
Joined: 06-20-2007


Message 65 of 307 (421108)
09-11-2007 1:21 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by Taz
09-11-2007 1:03 AM


Re: I know about Faith
quote:
Well, sure, if there is a god to begin with.
But we know from reality that the existence of god depends solely on people's faith. It's like santa clause. He exists but only in little kids' minds. It doesn't make him any more real in the real world than, say, the pink unicorn.
Well, I don't know about that. We have ancient written records which claim that God made(created all things), now we have the evidence to evaluate and measure. So it would seem as though the existence of God rests on our own capacity to determine whether the claim is true or not. Santa on the other hand, is a child's fairytale. It has been introduced as such and holds no bearing on the origin of life. Though the focus of your statement was placed on the layer of belief. I am not sure we can deny the implications of the beliefs in question to properly evaluate them. It is also notable that a belief in God spans much further than that of Santa. Though God can be many things to many people, the concept in itself seems to precede the limits of our own minds and understanding.
I'm not knocking your take on God and faith, but I think that the consensus that many people throw at the topic is in many cases either convoluted or suffering from improper handling.
I agree with the thought that God can only exist where people choose to believe in Him though.
Edited by pbee, : typo's

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Taz, posted 09-11-2007 1:03 AM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by kuresu, posted 09-11-2007 1:32 AM pbee has replied
 Message 70 by Taz, posted 09-11-2007 1:38 AM pbee has replied

pbee
Member (Idle past 6027 days)
Posts: 339
Joined: 06-20-2007


Message 69 of 307 (421112)
09-11-2007 1:36 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by kuresu
09-11-2007 1:32 AM


Re: I know about Faith
That's funny.
Truth of it is, because I think your right. Well we could say that God was never labeled as a physical being. Then again, this does not mean He cannot exist. It simply means that both subjects are not of the same form.
I fear we may be deviating off topic here. However, there is always room for a God exists does not exist thread though. If anyone wants to spawn one with a spin, it might end up entertaining who knows.

This message is a reply to:
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